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Monday, November 20 11:41 AM |
Urban Bamboolzed
editorial by
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I had great hopes for Urban Exposé when it first launched. I've complained for years that much of what passes for black journalism is too timid, too celebratory and more recently, little more than warmed-over press releases by rap-producer wannabes. But in a matter of weeks Urban Exposé became the poster child for a disturbing new form of black self-hate.
In the first few days, I thought Urban Expose was a breath of fresh air. Its edgy, critical analysis of "urban" Web sites, (including Urban Box Office, where I was the editor-in-chief) I thought, would bring some much-needed skepticism to the phenomenon of "urban" sites that were sprouting up like toadstools after a storm.
Unfortunately, Urban Exposé deteriorated rapidly; the site's central concept was to let viewers create their own content. The founders (who often called or emailed me to try to get information about UBO) crowed that they had created a business model that was self-sustaining because they didn't have to pay expensive writers' fees. Unfortunately, much of the content proved to be worth about what UE was paying for it - nothing.
No doubt, Urban Box Office provided a huge target for criticism; our ambitions were large and not always clearly defined, our capacity to execute successfully was far more limited - and we were more successful at raising money than any other urban site. We obviously also had serious morale problems because some of the people posting on Urban Exposé were current or former employees. Some of the rage stemmed from the natural frustrations of any start-up; but some of it was made worse by the sudden loss of founder George Jackson. He had the warmth and ability to engage people that our remaining founders could not match - and that we badly needed.
But the comments on the site quickly took on a vicious, nasty turn. In any on-line community, a handful of people can quickly set the tone. I had seen this happen in Compuserve and Usenet forums, predecessors of Web-based discussion sites. Because UE allowed participants to sign on anonymously or under pseudonyms and exercised no control over content, participants escalated their personal attacks on people at UBO. While those making charges remained anonymous, their victims were very specifically named. Of course, there was no way to know what was true and what wasn't. The sexual habits, gender preferences, work styles of people at UBO - real or imagined - were fair game in the eyes of the hooded scribes -- no matter what damage their postings did to people's professional and personal lives. And the attacks had nothing to do with the quality and survivability of the urban sites that UE was supposedly created to critique.
In comparison to what some of my colleagues suffered, the attacks on me were mild. At various times I was accused of being "Stepin Fetchit," of doing no work, of flirting with women employees, and of hitting on UBO men. I will say in my defense that I am incorrigibly straight, happily married and the father of a teenager and that I viewed most of my colleagues at UBO as bright, dedicated people young enough to be my children and who deserved my utmost respect. As for the work, my accuser obviously didn't know one of my principal roles: to revamp our news strategy. This process took several months to rethink and to sell to management, but the process was not visible to my masked critics. I was frustrated by my inability to improve some sites. But my authority over many UBO sites was never clear. In addition, we were saddled with a publishing system designed to prevent editors from making any changes. But those are details and they're all moot now.
The most unusual accusation against me, of being some kind of "Uncle Tom" was actually the most revealing. Any superficial research of my 30-year record in the news business - from the Washington Post to Black Enterprise to USA Today to PC Magazine to Fortune - would reveal that I've been one of the most outspoken critics of the media and its treatment of minorities both as victims of coverage and as employees. I was a founder of the National Association of Black Journalist and one of the labels I have worn proudly for most of my career is a declaration by Ben Bradlee, my former boss at the Washington Post, that I was "gifted, but a pain in the ass." I've never felt I had to hide in anonymity to criticize what my current or potential employers were doing wrong. And it has not prevented me from holding top-level management positions where my vision was implemented of what a publication should be.
Obviously my accusers knew nothing about my past - and didn't bother to find out. So what was the trigger for such vituperation? A posting by one of UE's founders gave me an insight. In a semi-satirical piece on the site about several UBO execs and their ties to government agencies, the writer noted that I was a member of the Council on Foreign Relations - but he or she also asked whether I was the janitor. I was the only non-white person in the group and I was the only one associated with a menial or token role. This told me that some of the people involved with Urban Exposé suspect any person of color who succeeds in mainstream institutions.
Anyone who has negotiated the treacherous waters of corporate America is automatically assumed to have sold out -something like the cartoonish characters in Spike Lee's "Bamboozled." Like the movie, this mentality is self-defeating. It gives us no credit for being smart, for acting strategically, for making ourselves valuable to an institution -even when there are elements of racism - and at the same time maintaining our integrity and our commitment to our communities - something our parents and grandparents did in far more adverse conditions.
Ultimately, this and other postings on Urban Exposé reveal a profound black self-hate. Any male-female relationship at UBO was assumed to be sexual; anybody really disliked was accused of being gay and no urban site was any good. I once told Crispus that the anonymous writers apparently couldn't get laid, couldn't imagine an intellectual relationship with a woman, suffered from serious gender insecurity and couldn't write or spell-and that they were punks for hiding, but I was only being half-serious.
Urban Exposé poses more critical issues for our community. Once, when "Crispus Attucks" called me, I asked him what he considered a good urban site. His response: Urban Exposé. That self-indulgence suggested that Urban Exposé saw the urban marketplace from an old-fashioned crabs-in-the barrel perspective: tear everyone else down and you'll be left standing. Under pressure, Crispus finally gave kudos to Black Planet, which uses the same user-created content model but hardly touches our community's need for strong, focused professional editorial content with an urban perspective. I still believe in the dream of us speaking in our own voices about everything from the Florida elections to the Middle East, from hip-hop to classical music, from hoops in the 'hood to black hockey players in Canada.
What damage has Urban Exposé done to the urban marketplace? From the questions posed by reporters who called me after we announced the shutdown, it is clear that many in the white community read Urban Exposé closely and gave it more credibility that it should have. I would be the last to charge that UE killed UBO or any other urban site - the blame belongs to the management team, including me -and the state of the investment market. But some investors have told me that the tone on Urban Exposé - and the danger they may become targets of wild, unsubstantiated attacks - has made them shy about investing in the "urban" space. I'm more upset by the signs that reckless accusations indicate some participants in Urban Exposé never saw themselves as players. If you're a player, you don't just tear down, you look for solutions. Our accusers were loud, but deep down, they saw themselves as victims.
But UE was the "window" into "black talk" that whites so often crave. There's no doubt that the brutishness and nastiness of the dialogue fit into some people's fantasies about how black folk treat each other behind closed doors. In my many years on line, I have never come across a "non-urban" site that allowed so many libelous personal attacks on people. Had UE exercised some judgment, forbidden personal attacks and required participants to use their real names, the level of discussion would have been lifted and we all might have learned. In anonymity, there is no responsibility.
Urban Exposé's brutal exchanges fit nicely into the current (and recurring) stereotype that anything "authentically" urban has to be raw, unsophisticated and uncontrolled -a narrow definition that fuels so much of today's rap culture. It leaves no room for "urban" to include Duke Ellington, Erykah Badu, Joshua Redman, Awadagin Pratt or Reuben Blades. In the end, Urban Exposé threatens to become a minstrel show for the Web, a dot-com doodah in digital blackface. But then as Spike points out in "Bamboozled," in these times of sellable ethnicity, anything that's a hit justifies its own existence.
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& your point is? so give us all the real deal at UBO |
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Poor, poor Joel. Nothing else to do, huh? Sour grapes much?
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urbanexpose is a cool site. It has introcuced me to sites such as sohh.com and aka.com that i would never have paid attention to because of their odd-ball names.
The site is still driven by user content. UE sets the ball rolling and us readers chip in with our two cents. UE provides a useful service by answering key question such as what impact the BET sale will have on the DC, why was Emerge folded up? Why are so many urban sites incomprehensible with their graphics and media?
I like UE because it's simple and educational. |
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say that again ANDREW... joel is a bitter (like CHANTE and ME'SHELL) ex UBO employee |
Oh my Gawd! Volume.com HAS launched! Can't wait to read UE's page by page breakdown of the site. It looks interesting, but what does everyone else think?
It's interesting though -- did Volume hear the rumors about UBO and wait until they were dead and buried to launch? That's a substantial competitor out of their way with no effort. |
This is as real as it gets. It's pretty cool for UE to provide a forum for "The Criticized" to respond.
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You are once again feeding into the stereotype. You are saying the negative posts speak for every Black person here at UE like UBO represented every urban web site on the Internet.....
You are also trying to put UE to a higher standard than other web sites out there by saying people should use their real names. I can show you a thousands BBS that are full of slander, pump and dump scheme, multi-level pyramid marketing schemes, and other illegal activities worst than name calling. You are also forgetting us Black people have a right to speech also. I'm not defending anyone comments, but I'm respecting their rights to make them...
I think that is the real scary part for you mr. dreyfuss and other people in this media industy..blacks are talking without your approval or editorial....
I used my real name here, I never knew anyone at UBO and frankly didn't know the company existed other than from what I heard here..from my standpoint UBO was just another web site..just because someone threw money at doesn't make it any better than any other urban web site that been out there for years in my eyes....
You also stated that probably because of Urban Expose', many investors are relunctant to invest in the 'urban space'. I find this statement incredible and if it was true you just validated that investors make their decisions based on race and social preference, not a company prospectus or business plan. Are you saying this?
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Joe what exit package did you get from UBO? Probably nothing right? |
Joel, one word: please. Naw, forget that, if you put half as much effort into your job as Editor in Chief at UBO as you did with this "Awwww, you let people talk about me....!" Perhaps UBO didn't go down in the Blaze that it did.
On another note, I wish people would stop fishing for reaction to Volume.com. it's nothing to talk about and from the looks of it a downright embarrassment of UBO proportion. 6 million and all you could come up with is free email, message boards?, You can get that shit free at Yahoo clubs.
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"I still believe in the dream of us speaking in our own voices about everything from the Florida elections to the Middle East, from hip-hop to classical music, from hoops in the 'hood to black hockey players in Canada. "
Blaklife.com is set to launch Monday, January 1st 2001. Any person can write an article on anything they like, on the subject they like and people can respond in the comments/talkback section and it is available in 5 languages.
Yes, it's that simple - don't ask me why anyone else never thought about actually having Black people represent themselves in the media.... |
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Hookted it Up,
You made one of the best points I heard. What is the real issue here is you cannot cover a generic solution with chocolate. Free email is free email..chat is chat, you can't cover that shit up with a 'black' prefix and expect to be distinct from your competitors who are non-black...
In all this stupid ass hoopla about UBO, Blackplanet, etc. we ignore the true heroes representing our people....Christine Charity Genealogy web site has helped many black people find their roots for years..Askheartbeat is ran by a female giving advice on Black orientated relations for years also..these are black sites run by everyday people like me and you who has something to share with everybody.
But they are lost in the limelight when we flock like sheep to these 'mainstream urban' sites because they are endowed in the white media....
And it also concerns me that for years our culture is always more focused on individuals who want to claim to the first of the best of our race to do shit...I cannot pick up a copy of Ebony/Essence/Black Enterprise magazine without encountering this "best of the plantation" mentality of our people.
I went to a conference I won't name (fuck it - MOBE) last year where they was hollering Darien Dash was the first Black person to launch an Internet IPO---what the fuck that suppose to mean!? Should I hang his picture next to the mlk and jfk mural in my dining room?
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Joe you need to stop worrying about Urban Expose and COMB YO HAIR! You look like shit in that picture. Just like an Uncle Tom. Then again maybe that crooked toupay you wearing will have them old ladies at the nursing home thinking you're a "wild and crazy guy." Because the nursing home is now the only place that will have you. |
I am not nor have I ever worked for a company mentioned on UE (just to clear that up). This is one of the better pieces ever published on UE and the lack of dialogue it has created is very telling. Though I visit UE to feed my hunger for senseless gossip and drama, I too question the validity of a forum like UE. This internet thing is global man and much like the dark, early years of so called "gangster rap", we as black people are still broadcasting undesirable images of ourselves and our professional behavior worldwide. In a racially divided world this is self-hatred to say the least.
I do not believe that UE leads to the downfall of these companies or the race for that matter but I can't see how it helps. The bottom line is that UE rides the backs of urban sites to make a name for itself. We posters diss people, who are too busy to diss us back, to make ourselves feel better. I could be wrong but I don't see how any of this is apart of the solution.
We need urban sites to represent us and our interests and not just those who treat us like the media does (ie half-ass negative reporting of our efforts or situation). I know that UE cannot be all things but it can be more beneficial than it is.
Questions to all: Since most of the negative reporting and dissing on this site is aimed at black people and their accomplishments, are we really sure that this site is not run by white supremists? Oh goodness y'all skip that, I forgot we've been doing the work for the white supremists awhile now.
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Ed, that blaklife sounds cool. Just wait until we at UE get hold of it, we'll wave off the good points, big up the problems and spew our negative energy 'til the walls fall in on 'em. |
Hey man..
I agree with Joel on this one. he leaves alot to think about. A lot of us look forward to reading about someone's downfall because in the back of our minds it suggests that there will less competition and more room for us who were still standing. I honestly belive we should stop hating and start offering constructive criticisms. Lastly, I will add that as is the case in many sites, especially urban, the people doing most of the posting aren't Black. From Black Planet to numerous other websites, its usually some white guy with a haddin aganeda stirring up the pot with disparaging remarks. |
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Angie,
Any site that allow people to respond is a great site, no matter how you cut it. Freedom and Foolishness are partners in crime. So I don't focus on the negative posting here to deter me from liking the intention of this site.
You ever hear a conservative talk show on the radio..do you hear what some white people will say about other races if they feel they are anonymous? Believe me, the claims people are making about UE are lame in comparison....
I think UE is a great site. UE holds these 'urban web sites' accountable for their actions. I been on the Internet for over 5 years and never saw the BS web sites that target our people like the ones that target the 'urban space'. I read from the beginning that UE felt most of the people caught up in the recent rush to reach out to the urban market are nothing more than opportunists coming with wack ideals and plenty of financining. And I agree with that 1000%
I think UE did great coverage on places of color, urban magic and other sites that portray themselves as self-proclaimed urban success stories ..UE only called UBO like they saw it and believe me , I called UBO like it was when I heard first George Jackson annouce his intentions over a year ago..him being dead don't make his ideal any better... |
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Joel,
You seem a little too preoccupied after the fact
with being dubbed a 'dot Tom' if you are, so what.
If you aren't, who cares? Now that you have time
on your hands you're trying to do spin control on
the UBO fiasco, please spare us the sermon on 'how
to critique those that look like you, without appearing
to be one of them'. Where was your open plea for
community and purpose while you were burning a million
bucks on god knows what, doing the devils knows nada?
You said that UE gave you ample opportunity to respond
to and refute criticism leveled against your here, yet
you waited until you were without a platform to come here
and bitch and bemoan. While UBO was afloat you were too
damn 'busy' to belittle yourself, now you're just eChastising
and you sound defeated and deflated. Stop rehashing your
damn resume here, we're not hiring either. You've already
shown what you can offer and speaking for me, I'll pass.
The rage and contempt that your former co-workers displayed
here was an open letter that read 'these guys don't know what
the hell their doing, do any of you?' You should've learned
from those tidbits of info while 'revamping your news strategy'.
While I appreciate the rationalizations through your inclusion
of moot details which you say no longer matter, I am still at a
lost as to what you're rambling about. I tried to search my
memory for instances in which UBO spoke my concerns in my voice,
but I'm sorry I came up blank. Could you refresh my memory a little?
Maybe you should've read UE like the white reporters and VC opts,
then you would've been abreast of the tide turning against you and
polished off that old resume or been prepared for what happpened.
Once again, you were too busy rationalizing your plight with Bamboozled,
criticizing Black Planet and partying on Ellis Island. Good stuff.
You truly understand the 'urban mindset'.
I think they just called your number in the unemployment line...next!
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Exactly who is Joel Dreyfuss referring too when he says wanna-be rap producers? Is that how you see us?
Joel Dreyfuss refused to take responsibility for his lack of undersanding of the urban space and what the black intelligencia wants. When he sees honest open discussing.. He tries to characterize it as black self hate. It's interesting someone from Joel's background to try to define what black self-hate is. We can think for ourselves. Our opinions are valid and can be heard on UE from a wide range of subjects. I also think its interesting that Joel Dreyfuss see the conversation here as he put it "black talk". I think it is quite clear where Joel Dreyfuss stands. He views black people as he puts it , raw and unsophisticated and uncontrolled. Are we not free to express ideas?
in the end.. he is just trying to point the finger at UE for some perceived slight. Get over it Joel. You were hired at UBO to produce something in the urban space on the web and you failed. You spent months collecting a check, walking around doing nothing, and now you are claiming that you were "rethinking" our news strategy? You just didn't have any new ideas and were afraid to ask for help.
A new idea rolls around in the form of UE that is aggressive , smart and comes from the heart and gives everyone a chance to partipate and that is alien to you. The fact that you didn't play a roll or can control it scares you. I think even scary still is that you realize that people respect your accomplishments over the years but that young black intelligence realize you are irrelevant on matters that are important to us.
You are an elitest and your time at UBO showed you share no connection to youth or are in touch with the black intelligencia or creative community. Sometimes you can't teach and old dog new tricks. |
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UE kinda reminds me of Baltimore. You know the city where a bunch of punk bitchez who never did nothing but always have some shit to say about people tryin to do what they want to do. Baltimore, where people are always happy when other people fuck up. Crabs in a barrel always pull each other back. You fuckers on here are a bunch of fuckin crabs. And if you got so much time to post on here every fuckin day to build up you so-called clout, you really ain't got shit going on.
These days are numbered. Stay Crabs.
PS: Joel is right.
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#blaklife got taken over a long time ago.
#flavah and #black are dead and #blackhouse moved to undernet. |
Joe, you wrote that you've "complained for years that much of what passes for black journalism is too timid, too celebratory and more recently, little more than warmed-over press releases by rap-producer wannabes." Joe, you need to stop reading Shade magazine. Anybody who seen your "articles" knows you are full of shit. You write about "digital watches" and other "important" issues. If UBO had "morale problems" it's because the owners didn't know what they were doing. Joe, you're just jealous because "UE was the "window" into "black talk" that whites so often crave" and UBO did nothing but throw parties. Any superficial research of your 30-year record in the news business would show that you have been an Uncle Tom at the Washington Post, Black Enterprise, USA Today, PC Magazine and Fortune. You were one of the only minorities working at these places and far from an "outspoken critic" of anything your white massas did. You never fought to get more brothers and sisters hired. You only wanted to work with other like-minded Toms like yourself. Admit it. You left your job at Fortune and tried to make big internet money but ended up on your ass in the same streets you spent a lifetime putting down. |
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shade magazine, LOL.... |
"Urban Exposé's brutal exchanges fit nicely into the current (and recurring) stereotype that anything "authentically" urban has to be raw, unsophisticated and uncontrolled -a narrow definition that fuels so much of today's rap culture. It leaves no room for "urban" to include Duke Ellington, Erykah Badu, Joshua Redman, Awadagin Pratt or Reuben Blades."
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Huh??? Who made you arbiter of what is and isn't urban? You degrade urban "culture" by insinuating that it begins and ends with "rap". It isn't us, the true, multi-ethnic urban denizens that put limitations on urban culture, it's people like you who are frustrated that we won't fit into the niche that you are marketing to suburban and rural white kids that equate urban with BLACK and RAP. What the fuck did UBO know about urban?
I mean really, are the Williams sisters urban??? No. There is nothing urban about two black chicks from a drug and gang infested suburb ( take it from my Cali born ass, Compton may be ghetto but it aint urban ) of Los Angeles who happen to be celebrities because they are good at whacking a fuzzy green ball with oversized, overpriced pieces of graphite and mesh wire. Not to take away from them as athletes, but what is urban about them? They have clearly broken barriers in a white dominated sport like tennis by wrecking shop like they have and hey, maybe that's a cool boon for black folks everywhere. But why did UBO choose to market URBAN as BLACK ATHLETES and RAPPERS? Not only is that a very limited view of what is URBAN but it just went towards propagating the same sterotypes ( black people are only good at sports and entertaining ) that you decry in your diatribe.
I don't know you Joel Dreyfuss, and I never said anything bad about you, but the company you worked for, got fired by and are still protecting was ASS BACKWARDS. Nothing about UBO, from the concept, to the ( non-existent ) content, to the design, to the "urban mythology" that so many of it's employees and bosses seemed to so enjoy spounting off made a damn bit of sense. And now, even with your clearly heartfelt "execuse" as to why it all failed, it still makes no sense. |
Oh, let me not forget the other key ingredient to UBO's view of urban culture... HAIR WEAVES... uh... I mean hairweb. What kind of shit was that??? |
This article, like Steve Gillard's, was a little wordy, but very interesting.
This was a clever idea on UE's part. I get tired of reading only UE's point of view...it is good for us to know both sides so that we can have an objective opinion...don't cha think? |
Joe the only thing "incorrigibly straight" about you is your hair. What's left of that shit. |
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I noticed that Joel Dreyfuss refers to himself in this article as an exotic, light-skinned foreigner with a French accent.
He treats it as such that he is therefore superior and more deserving of getting an apartment than other black people.
He also notes that on the weekend he was free to unburden himself with being black.
Joel seems to find being black a burden. He also talks about moving from hatii and the fact that they now lost their privledge, status and servants. Who were your servants back in Hatii Joel? Black people of course.
Great. Stick a fork in this guy: He's done.
http://www.windowsonhaiti.com/newimm.htm |
Who gives a fuck what this guy has to say. |
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I began to check out UE some time ago by a friend who seemed consistantly more hip than myself, and took what he touted as UE's strengths as gospel on the subject of "who's who" and "what's what"on the inside of the explosion in digital urban existence.
And, for the most part, I have been satisfied with an understanding that I could call invaluable. The majority of the information is so rich with personal authenticity and fact, one could call that authenticity and richness the root of undoing that Mr. Dreyfuss is fussin' about.
I have read message strings on UE that have nothing to do with the original topic (case in point, the utterly embarassing Ronin Ro tirade), or just outright mean rants.
True, Mr. Dreyfuss in part is venting a bitterness that I could care less for but, the man has brought up a solid point. UE is content driven- and we are responsible for the content. Crispus and the gang have only given us a forum. We must remember that we are not the only ones here. We are not incognegro, folks. This is public.
I have no problem with spewing the facts, dish it all you must. And for all the so-called facts that are less credible, remember that "haters" are everywhere. Caveat Emptor.
You choose to buy the Bull Shit or not.
My opinion of this site is of high regard. I enjoy reading the critical opinions of my people on the shape of the digital age in an intellegent and witty environment- without the looming corporate advertising machine dictating UE's content. Face it... the only places online reserved for us to actually be ourselves in this manner are far and few between. There are websites abound with garbage content... for us by us.
I will stay by UE's side- and UE isn't Crispus and them, it's everyone who is truly interested in the direction of our people in the digital age here on UE. Not the haters, crabs, bad authors or whiney ex-execs.
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I'd have to agree with Shaan; I too, find it interesting that Mr. Dryfeuss wrote this editorial after UBO's demise. He sounds like he's holding UE accountable for their failure.
As far as UE's concerned, I like this site; yes, some of the comments are irreverent (and sometime hilarious) but name one online forum that doesn't have its share of drama.
If there's one thing I've learn by visiting this site, it's avoiding the same mistakes some of these now-defunct sites made; anyone who's thinking about starting an 'urban' site should find UE rather informative.
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Joe,
Since you wanted to show us what a credible
wealth of info you are let the board decide
for themselves:
http://www.salonmag.com/news/1998/12/01newsb.html
http://www.pbs.org/blackpress/modern_journalist/dreyfuss.html
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/chat/transcripts/1999/07/07/dreyfuss.html
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/dreyfuss/0,5328,42056,00.html
http://www.frontpagemag.com/dh/1998/dh-jd12-03-98.htm
Truly if there was anyone deserving of a pulitizer
prize, it's you Mr. Doofus (I may Dreyfuss). Grandpa,
leave that PC alone and come and take your epsom salt
bath.
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Joel after reading your post Mr. Sinister has to weigh in here
first I have met several UBOers and here is my first hand impression
1. Most HAD NO TECHNICAL BACKGROUND
2. Thought that having "industry contacts" was the shit
3. Thought flossing equal to CPM
4. Did not know what product or service that they offer
As an example on3 day I looked on Indie Planet and they were selling a damn router!!!!!! Yea that is what your demo is looking for!!!
Now you say that UE has a crabs in the barrel mentality and that "White tech writers are seeing the darkside of Black America Bullshit!!!!
Here is some of the latest "TECH" gossip out
1. Larry Ellison CEO of Oricle cannot find antone to be his number 2 because he is such a Asshole
2. Bill Gates and upper management playing favorites on promotions and if you are not on Bill's IM buddy list that is your ass
3. Steve Jobs of Apple bring back that Macintosh us against them mentality that doomed the company in the 80"s
Now you here is a comparison between two companies lets see if we can name them
1. Both blow shitloads of VC money on parties and women
2. Both have no upper tech Management who was ever in in upper Management of a tech company.
3. Both have no business plan on how they are going to make money
4. Both have published innuendo's of gay, freak bi sex shit reported
5. Both raised more VC money than there competitors
6. Both said that they were going to define their markets
7. Both out of Business in Less that a year.....
The Answer........ DEN and UBO one a "white company one an Urban???? company. Same shit different companies so do not come up here with that shit because it does not wash
Now for all you people trying to get your shit to together here is a some advice from a TECH person who has managed installed AIX, Cisco routers and had to stay up late at late doing System Coversions
1. HIRE TECH PEOPLE FIRST
2. Get a Technical Project manager; this is really important because most Project Managers are Assholes and they want their bonuses and will make sure your shit gets done ontime
3. narrow your scope Listen the to the term "internet space" that is exactly what this shit is a vast area with no beginning or ending
4. What is going to make you money let me make it simple for you, Either you have a PRODUCT or SERVICE that you sell
5. Make sure that whatever you are selling is something that motherfuckers with good credit want. This is the BIGGEST thing black and Latino kids do not have Credit cards so guess what for those who thought that it would be great to sell phat gear on the web dumb IDEA. Kids wear that shit as soon as they walk out the store
6. Test your website out on a 33.6 modem; if that shit does not load or lock up you need to go to the drawing board because that is what motherfuckers are using
7. Make it office friendly??? Now what does this mean??? He is a quick example. every notice that posts on UE stop at Friday around 5 PM???? you know why because most of these folks use there COMPUTER AT WORK!!!!! They do not even have one at home but I bet they have a big Screen TV
So do not have all that wild shit or have a "quiet site" so people can review your info
So Joel take it from a Person who actually makes money off the net, and was in the First internet back in the 80's on my Commordore 64 on those BBS boards, mad because my mother would not let me dial long distance to get on the phat boards in Cali. And you know what I am only 30 and Black!!!!! So Joel if you need some consulting on your next endeavor shoot me an email and I will send you my company info
because I consult athletes, companies to teach them that waht Urban really is cites where people live, because most people are the same they just talk different!!!!!!
R.U. Sinsister asking the all important question what the fuck is Urban anyway??? |
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Oh come on JD!
Investors don't check vault.com to see what those 'insiders' are talking about before they send money!
That was just BS and you know it. Investors are looking for long term profitability and UBO didn't have it. |
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It is naive and short-sghted to blame UE for the demise of a company. Did the creators of Nike and Fedex quit when their professors told them that their business models would fail? Do companies when bad articles are written about them? Yes, sometimes they do. They complain and explain their side of the story. If Bear Stearns doesn't love you anymore, you should defend yourself and assure them that the company is on track. But UE? please! A company with it's act together should not pay attention to what a website like UE says about it. UE did not cause any company to fail. Those companies would never have gotten off the groung before they burned through all their investors money. |
Joel,
I do hope you'll take the time from your busy schedule to answer to some of these observations. We know you're watching.
Peace,
Isidro Otis |
See RU, that's what's I'm talking about!--I'm taking notes right about now. |
I think everyone on this board is joking with Mr. Dreyfuss. True, Mr. Dreyfuss we respect your record and list of proud achievements but segments of your editorial were a bit inflammatory and exclusionary. Hopefully, Mr. Dreyfuss, you will see that the youth of today would love to have you on our side as we try to do great things with the Web. But we can't work with you if you are against us. |
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Dick Wigglesworth II,
BOOHAHHAAHA!
Did you noticed that too about Baltimore? I wasn't in the area for over 20 minutes and realized how many playahaters were crawling around me..I once thought E. St Louis, Milwaukee or Cleveland had the worst playahaters until I visited Baltimore/PG...
That explains a lot why they couldn't elect a Black mayor last year.....
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RU Sinister:
Excellent break-down of why UBO did not meet it's expectations. This site has really given me a lot of insight on "what NOT to do" with my start up internet company.
Parties and flossing does not equal CPMs or Unique Users. I said that from the get go. Selling goods to people with no credit or bad credit obviously will demise your company and is not a good business model. I dont know how UBO got their funding in the first place, anyone with decent sense could see that this model would eventually fail.
First of all, you do not need 300+ people to run a web site with the "quality of weak content" that UBO provided the public with. Their content warrented no more than 20 full time people and possibly another 30 to 40 outsourced freelance staff to make it happen.
These people who are "blessed" with this $$ are totally abusing this privelege and are making the urban internet space tough for those of US- "with viable business models" to get the funding needed to put good ideas into the space.
$1 Million dollar Ellis Island events are insane especially when your patrons leave still not knowing what the hell your company does. Does that attract Uniques? This is what I call " misuse of $$" for your own frivelous needs. The folks at UBO should have just as well had a big Cocaine Party complete with Models and their Homo Friends instead. At least, their would have been no question as to what we were there for.
This guy wants sympathy now that his name is attached to the biggest FIASCO in urban history, and it aint gonna happen. One thing I have to say about UE posters is that we are not stupid, we are some of the most intelligent minds in the industry. and for the "Crab Mentality" we all post under aliases, so who's to say that we do not have our own ventures going on ourselves, or contributing to the urban space?
Shann:
I love your post, you keep me entertained all day. "Epsom salt baths, and Unemployment lines"- dawg you are over the top. Your "keep it moving" remarks are funny as shit. keep up the good work no matter how much they p-hate you. YOU ALRIGHT BY ME.
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Joel,
You HAVE to be kidding. I heard this same shit from Syd Schanberg and it didn't impress me then. Look inward for your faults, not outward. UE didn't hire Adam Kidron nor burn a million a week.
UE is not here to make sure that black companies remain criticism free. We have way too much of that crap going on in the community now. I would describe this as anything BUT self-hate. This is about maturing as a community and holding businessmen to basic standards of accountability.
It was the people on your staff which acted so unprofessionally in this space, not the outside posters.
And since my name and website are used in my posts, I won't take that anonymous thing personally.:-)
Regardless, the things you mention as minor details, like a completely flawed content system, no clear lines of authority are not minor. Even if Mr. Jackson had remained among the living, how many years did he have in the print business? What did he understand about the web?
You had a company which quickly grew a reputation for extravagant, unprofessional behavior, if ANY of the reports about how UBO people acted in meetings are to be believed. This isn't about selling out or any of that stuff, but basic business practices.
And as a journalist of 30 years standing, you know anonymity is used to protect sources. Name one website where real names are required. Or one newspaper or magazine which doesn't withhold names ina rticles or letters. That's a canard and a flimsy one at that.
Do you think UE is any more raw than Fucked Company or Slashdot? Please. It may be shocking because it one of the few places where black people have an honest conversation about matters in the community, but raw it is not.
What I would suggest is that instead of Boondocking these folks (blaming the messenger like Bob Johnson did when Aaron McGruder attacked BET), you look at how badly UBO performed in the marketplace and the apparent anarchy in the ranks of the company.
While being of the dusky persuasion myself, my career online has had nothing to do with "urban" sites. I wouldn't know Darrien Dash from the cop at the entrance to my subway station or Kidron from any other Brit. Yet, I was shocked at the antics reported here, ironically for many of the same reasons. A gross unprofessionalism in both content and behavior.
We are not children here. If you make a shitty site and your people act like fools in public, you should be called on it. Just like white companies. No one said that DEN or Psuedo had to be protected. If you cannot make it, you can't make it.
The money people may have used UE as an excuse, but they heard the stories as well. Anyway, what are you whining about, you had TWO Flatiron funds aboard. What were they supposed to do, lose money forever?
Instead playing the victim card, you should look closely at what UE has done, brought accountability to people who need it badly. This isn't the record business. There are standards here. The first of which is that if your stuff sucks and you lose money, you're out of business.
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the internet is all about sites like this...UE is the bomb, im not sayin its that important of a destination, but it serves its purpose...
The reson heads come here is for the drama, the negativity etc...
Honestly, the internet is FOR THE KIDS>>>we wanna beef w/each other fuk/steal/curse/kill/battle etc.
Actually thats one of the downfalls of ubo, being so positives about everyting....some of those sites probably got like 1hit cuz the were too positive and jut plain boring..WE WANT DRAMA!!!
negativity, something that will make me wanna post....
and this whole - why cant these urban sites be intelictuall etc...well...look around...there is not enough people to support a buisness model around something that narrow.
the black/intellectual/.com/urban/entertainment////
whatever, thats what UE is in a fun and negative way! but it aint a buisness! its just plain fun and gossip etc...
if ue didnt diss noon would come here.. |
BTW>
My prediction:
WINNERZ:
Blackplanet.com
Bet.com
TheSource.com (if they ever get they act together)
LOOSERS:
Hookt.com (how the fuk are they getitng any $$? i give em 3 months)
Platform.com (i jt got a bad feeling on this one)
and all the rest of em... |
Joel makes some thoughtful points. I've often read this site and wondered why folks are so p.o.'ed. It's so easy to attack someone but much more difficult to offer something of substance.
If you hate a site, don't visit it. If you think it's and afront to all that is holy in "urban" sites and makes us all look bad, then do better. I wonder how far our people would get if we invested as much time in working as we do in hating. When a crab reaches up to pull another one down it only prevents them both from escaping the pot. Tortured analogies aside, let's start making a difference instead of just making noise. |
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steve say that again:
This isn't the record business. There are standards here. The first of which is that if your stuff sucks and you lose money, you're out of business.
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kdsjhfsd:
your need to check your list again and switch the Source with Platform
but notice how the list are getting shorter |
As this is an open forum, we should all realize that our own individual tastes and opinions must differ.
If you feel there's too much negativity then come with the positive, and vice-versa.
Everything has a balance, this site will find it's own. |
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FYI for those that need more info
Volume.com, a community portal targeting
the trend-setting urban youth market, launched today. Focusing on a young,
multicultural demographic, Volume.com provides a neighborhood environment that
serves as a platform for self-expression and social interaction. Volume.com is
funded by Home Box Office.
With its "Live loud" motto, Volume.com will showcase the voices, talents,
and attitudes of the urban experience. The site focuses on community,
entertainment, lifestyle, empowerment, and shopping. Volume.com will be the
place to meet and interact with others, uncover breaking trends, showcase your
talents, discover underground acts, buy hot gear, listen to streaming radio,
and get the latest in news, sports, money, careers, sexuality, and much more.
Kevin Dowdell, CEO of Volume.com, said, "Volume.com will be the ultimate
online destination for urban youth. At Volume.com, our visitors are the
stars. Youth today want to connect with people they identify with, and their
identity is defined not only by the color of their skin, but also by their
shared experiences. The combination of this large, growing audience, our low
cost structure, and HBO backing will add up to a profitable business for us."
Marquee areas on the site will include:
* Black Market: showcase for unsigned artists
* Volume Radio: streaming radio, with hip-hop, R&B, drum 'n' bass,
electronica, comedy, and more
* Message Boards: discussion topics on many issues, including "College
Cool Out," "Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual," "Asians Amplified," etc.
* Indieland: short films by independent filmmakers
* Volume Mall: hot fashions, latest video games, beauty products, and
more, from brands such as The Rucker, Carol's Daughter, Sony
PlayStation2, and many others
Several strategic alliances will add to a superior user experience on
Volume.com. Through a relationship with Epinions.com, Volume.com gives
visitors the opportunity to read and write reviews and earn money.
Epinions.com has more than one million reviews and comments and covers over
200,000 products and services. Volume.com uses Netscape's cutting-edge search
technology, based on the world's largest human-built directory. In order to
provide the best user experience, Volume.com selected Sun Microsystems'
Internet Computing platform to build its technology infrastructure. Other
partners include CNN for continuously updated news headlines, Bullseye Art for
animation, FinanceCenter.com for personal finance tools, and Interactive
Apparel for a shopping mall.
Leading the venture is CEO Kevin Dowdell, the former head of HBO
Interactive Ventures. Volume.com is comprised of a diverse staff, with a
combination of Internet and traditional industry experience. The staff has
come from companies such as hbo.com, AGENCY.COM, MTVi, theglobe.com,
Doubleclick, ugo.com, Blackenterprise.com, Merrill Lynch, Deloitte & Touche,
Teach For America, Barnes & Noble, The Jackie Robinson Foundation and dePasse
Entertainment. |
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Can somebody verify that Volume costed 6 million dollars?
If true, investors are more stupidier than smarter after last april shakeout...
Most of the technology and features Volume.co are boasting in this press release any webmaster can incorporate into their own website for free...half of that shit you can get from dmoz.org,isyndicate,everyone.net,morover.com
For 6 millions dollars, I would at least have a business that has some barrier to perfect competition..
What are they offering that cost $6 million dollars?
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Volume.com is a hoax. just as i posted before these people are blessed with this VC money and are misappropriating these funds for their own personal gains.
The layout of this site as I see it can be done easily, the relationships are all free as long as volume goes through a major 3rd party affiliation. (thats only about 50-75K a year), some freelance writers to update content, kick ass programmers, and small admin staff and bammm!!!! about 500K a year- now a nice marketing and promotion and you have traffic, etc...... it's a done deal at about 3 million in 1 year, and it can be done a hell of a lot cheaper. but these pompus fools will spend tons of money and no one will visit their site or support it. MARK MY WORDS!!!!!!.
we see it happen all the time.
peace |
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VOLUME.COM - let's take a gander:
SPEAK UP! When do you think is the right time
to move in together?
When you are going to have a child together?
When you remove the booty call number from your
speed dial?
When you get engaged or married?
When your bills are too much to handle alone?
(those were the choices - choose well)
As urbanites we know that there's nothing more important
than an online poll to clue us into what we
should be doing in our personal lives, so this
is so informative and definitely needed. A+
Next up...
Pokin' Holes
Freaknasty piercings: What's it all about?
By Imani Joseph
I couldn't click fast enough to get the lowdown
on the debate to pierce v. not to pierce. Phew!
After that informative discussion I've decided to
get some clip ons to see how they work out in the
club, but I tell you one poster almost swayed me
with their observation:
"Piercing may seem extreme, but its alot easier to
remove a ring from your nose than to get rid of tatoo
you don't want anymore..."
Woa! Like these guys really understand me, how did
they know that I still have hazing nightmares and
can't wait to use that IPO loot on laser surgery since
the 'Shenehneh' tatoo is so 90's. A-
All this excitement has got me needing some...
COMMUNITY - where you too can get your 15 megs of fame.
"Mommy, mommy can I please sign up to be a member of the
volume.com street team? I want to let all my friends know
that I'm hip, because I'm an unpaid campus snitch clueing in
out-of-touch marketing people about what's going on with my
demographic." What no free merchandise, just 15 megs of fame?
B-
Hold on a spell...what's that you say, you wanna be in the record
business? Well, then check out BLACK MARKET - absolutely informative
piece called "Industry 101". Yipppee Wendy Day is breaking it
down about the real on the industry. Woweee!!! Great stuff. B+
I've got a full bladder, if one of you can get me access to their server
I'll piss all over it and we can escape before security comes to escort
us from the building.
www.volume.com - TURNING IT DOWN, I'M TRYING TO DO BUSINESS HERE!
UP NEXT - thesource.com - 'When the bad gets worst'
Editor note - There will be no references or mention of Made Men, Almighty RSO,
Antoinio Ansaldi or any affiliated shitted rappers. Now bad to the hate.
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Steve,
You raise good points as always, but don't allow yourself to fall into the same tar barrell with which you smear Mr. Dreyfuss, i.e. all -encompassing defense. Sure, UE does provide an honest forum for us to engage in critique. But there is no way anyone can defend the ugly personal attacks that have proliferated on this board. Yes, UE's attackers are often guilty of ignoring the insightful posts that do take place. But quite often UE's defenders are guilty of the same blind response, pooh-poohing the occasional bile that sometimes bubbles over |
This site sucks. Yes, I mean Urban Expose.
All you wankers around here just bitch
and moan about companies in the Urban
market. Whee, how fun. Anybody can do
that. You should check yo'self first.
This site is ugly. This site has nothing
that's considered "newsworthy." This
site has a bunch of fools with a bad
attitude.
Lat'ah fa' you, fools. |
I'm not defending the knucleheaded approaches some people take here.
But I am no more concerned about the ugliness here than at FC or Slashdot. People get online and say things they should not say in the way they do.
People should take more care with their words.
But I do love the concept that the people who post here are only bitching.
Here's a question: if we weren't ass deep in the industry, didn't know how content systems work or how important CPM rates are, how could we talk about any of this shit?
It would be impossible.
This place is filled with critics because we make the same decisions these large "urban" sites have and wonder how they could make them so badly.
So, we're right in the pool with the idiots making the mistakes. The only difference, we are not stupid enough to believe the hype. |
Joel:
This letter proves how ignorant you really are. You believe that urban culture should accept people like you and UBO, when in reality, all you are are unproven talent. Do you believe that a "hip hop" journalists would be accepted into the ranks of Forbes and others of the like without greater scrutiny? I doubt it. Actually, companies like that would be watching their every move because that person is unproven in that arena. The urban is business is small and your accomplishments elsewhere are meaningless because you are seen as an outsider coming into our small clique. You have to prove yourself jacko. What's even worse is that you believe that just because you are black, the people in hip hop should coming running to you like a flock of sheep as some great elder. Give me a break.
Another point: hip hop culture is built on disses gramps. This isn't your days of The Temptations where people ran around in suits saying yes sir and yes ma'am to every person they see. This is edgy, youth driven culture that needs an outlet to attack others and criticize that which they believe is poisoning the well.
Even worse, you blame UE for UBO's downfall. Didn't Forbes teach you that a business plan is a business plan no matter what realm you roam in? Doesn't good business pertain to hip hop as well as Wall Street? Check this one: isn't it good that Urban Expose gives people a forum to vent their frustrations with these new and established ventures? I mean, I think it's good the investors kept a close watch on this site. THIS IS THE AUDIENCE GOD DAMN IT!! And if this is the audience you are going for, the investors should know that the people aren't feeling it. Should good people with venture capital keep afloat a cash cow when they could invest in better urban companies that serve the audience as well as a concrete purpose? This isn't a black or white issue small fry, this is business.
Plus, you even have the gaul to say that UE is wrong because it's unregulated and attacks people personally. So, Joel, when did you lose your journalistic ethics and become a Socialist? Does the Constitution ring any bells in that lob-sided cranium? This is what the web is about--firey, witty, mean, fun criticism that allows those don't have an outlet to vent, to speak to the world. People here walk in all areas of urban culture and should comment unrestricted about the culture WE love and want to preserve from people like YOU. Plus, people can't always speak their minds at the wrongs committed at their companies and in the industry abroad because of office politics and fear for their jobs. Why is this wrong? Should we all try to write for controlled media who seldomly let new people in? Should we write strong letters to the editor that are subject to that media outlet's editorial discretion? This isn't your days of smoke signals and Morse code pops.
I say get in where you fit in. If you are having a midlife crisis and want to run with the young, firey cats, so be it. But don't down it for what it is. If you can't understand it, or hate it for what it is, then leave. Did we invite you? I got a news flash for you Joel, we are educated people and we do care. So don't think flashing your credentials in our face is going to impress us. Save us the rhetoric and editorials and go back to Forbes, with your tail between your legs. |
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UE-Sucks: Re your comments that this site is ugly, perhaps you never heard the term "form follows function"
My only beef with this site is it doesn't show peoples Ip addresses so we can tell who are the punks making fake accounts to post their "anonymous rabbit postings" UE-sucks, u know what I'm talking about??? Funny how your clout is 1, but you sound as if you've been around here for more than a minute. |
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On second thought, Joel you stupid! what in the hell was you thinkin? You should know better than to try and make sense of what UBO was doing. You should have also known better to not respond to what ole girl wrote in Salon. Even though she was a "pee-on" she had enough insight to tell it like it was. You should have known to pick and exit strategy a while back when that "d" (dick head) round of financing took a turn for the worst (i did). You should have also known better to get the fuck out of dodge when "stone cold adam kidron" wouldn't step down (we could have gotten financing had he). You should have known the difference between a business and a dream (we all have dreams, few of them will make money). You should have known to kiss ass better and a little bit more (maybe you would be still there collecting a check instead of getting frisked and searched on the way out that last Friday).
It is my opinion that anything that dosen't make dollars dosen't make sense so there's no way you can justify the business model UBO operated under. It is important to understand that if you see some shit that is wrong, you do something about it not just protect your paycheck. If your that damn good then even if they got rid of you, you would have left with your dignity.
werd iz bond gawd! |
Where can I find some PR Hos?
I hear they are at this place Urban Expose?
I need a hummer bad |
<<In comparison to what some of my colleagues suffered, the attacks on me were mild. At various times I was accused of being "Stepin Fetchit," of doing no work, of flirting with women employees, and of hitting on UBO men. I will say in my defense that I am incorrigibly straight, happily married and the father of a teenager and that I viewed most of my colleagues at UBO as bright, dedicated people young enough to be my children and who deserved my utmost respect.>>
Interesting....Your failure to squash the issues of you being a Stepin Fetchit, lazy, oversexed old man speaks volumes.
By the way, just what were you trying to attempt with this diatribe? Hast thou not known...hast thou not heard that silence speaks volumes?
I had no opinion of you prior to your editorial. But now I see that you are nothing but a crybaby whose credibility is shot. Should have opted to maintain some level of dignity by being quiet, 'Twan. As a "professional" why bother addressing your detractors in a forum you obviously find subpar? We are obviously not worthy of you so why bother?
Shaan is right..you are a doofus.
By the way...NABJ SUCKS!!! I can't believe you're freaking proud of starting that no good organization! You lose your last cool point for bringing that shit up.
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I worked at UBO from the early stages and know what the vision was and still is...most of those that came later on got a filtered idea on what the focus was, and after the death of George Jackson, that vision became blurry and eventually out of focus for a number of reasons.
I worked with Joel Dreyfuss and somewhat agree with what he had to say. Its true ,it seems that weve ALL been bamboozled and hookwinked in this
so called "urban" marketplace.
I remember phreaking the phone system and logging on to bullentin boards, hacking worldwide without the web around from a phone booth on my trs-100 radio shack computer before many of you knew what email was. We ALL went by this manifesto:
"This is our world now, the world of
the electron and the switch,
the beauty of the baud.
We make use of a service already
existing without paying for what
could be dirt-cheap if it weren't
run by profiteering gluttons, and
you call us animals.
We explore - and you call us criminals.
We seek after knowledge - and you
call us criminals.
We exist without skin color, without
nationality, without religious bias - and you call us criminals.
You build atomic bombs, you wage wars,you murder, cheat and lie to us andvtry to make us believe it is for our own good - yet we are the criminals.
Yes, I am a criminal.
My crime is that of curiousity.
My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like.
My crime is that of outsmarting you, something
that you will never forgive me for.
I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto.
You may stop me, but you can't stop us all."-The Mentor
Replace "criminal" with "urban, black, hip hop, alternative,white, asian, willy wonka, whatever"
Gets kinda corny towards the end, but you get the point.
For many of us to come of age, and
begin to reap the benefits of what is now "the future" is all a sham if we arent controlling it, yet alone attempting to help each other, or to build something in a medium where the playing field is leveled digitally.
Instead, you have Urban Expose, which is basically a revamped Cafe Los Negros board (remember that?)
But wack which when some are lead to believe that this site "provides coverage" in the urban market, and whats more shameful is that its gets fueled by ex-employees, and those who dont know what the phuck the real deal was to begin with. Instead, before you reply to this, check this out:
What has happened so far this year:
* Earlier this month, Viacom agreed to pay $3 billion for BET.
* In June, Time Warner acquired a 49% stake in black women's magazine publisher Essence Communications.
* In September, Time Warner acquired African-American Internet portal Africana.com, a site co-founded by Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr.
* Last year, Seagram paid $100 million to buy hip-hop music label Def Jam from founder Russell Simmons.
Viacom president and COO, identified several reasons behind the deal:
* The African-American market is growing faster than the general population.
* The African-American market consumes more media than the general market.
''We really do think this market is a terrific market for Viacom to now participate in,'' Karmazin said.
Participate or own?
Who knows, Will UE make a difference anyway? Will any "urban" site?
UE will probably shape itself into a tool of "accountability" in some weird sort of way. The UBO story will be told in its entirety someday, and UE served to give some First Generation Urban motherphuckers a soapbox to say somethings they wouldnt normally say in the norm, and to communicate this to a mass of people, no matter how true or false.
That is what the internet is for. I communicated.
Peace
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technically Urban-Expose is NOT an urban site for 2 simple reasons:
1) No expensive wasteful launch party
2) No browser crashing, bandwidth killing flash intro and navigation bar
3) NO Fubu or Alcohol banners
4) I haven't gotten my two-way pager yet
waitamin...that was 4 right? I guess ole man Joel was right:
I once told Crispus that the anonymous writers apparently couldn't get laid,
couldn't imagine an intellectual relationship with a woman, suffered from serious gender insecurity and
couldn't write or spell-and that they were punks for hiding, but I was only being half-serious. |
I think it's time for people to acknowledge that UE has actually raised the bar of performance for urban sites, and has made this section of Internet space better, not worse.
It certainly had an effect on Volume, which switched from a heavy content model to more of a Black Planet model, ditched its flashy flash intro and amazingly launched without an extravagant self-indulgent party.
Make no mistake that Volume has taken very careful steps (maybe too careful) knowing that all eyes are watching. While this type of fear doesn't create the type of innovation that many of us are looking for in the urban internet space, it at least limits the number of sites who roll out with a completely clueless approach, burning not only investor cash but also entepreneurs with solid ideas who get put in the same box.
And when we are ripping the clueless players in this space, let's save a special "go-get-my-belt" ass whipping for the the dumbest of all the participants--the VCs who invested in some of these companies (Flatiron, etc.). I think there's no question that everyone knows the ultimate viability of urban media properties ($3 billion for BET tells you something). But any success on the Internet requires two ingredients, regardless of the specific business concept: strong management and a strong technology platform. Real VCs are supposed to put the missing pieces in place. Hummer Winblad only invested $15 million in Napster, chump change by UBO standards, but they put one of their partners in as CEO and then went out and got the baddest lawyer in the country to fight the record labels. What was Fred Wilson of Flatiron doing while UBO was de-constructing all summer long. Eating shrimp at Ellis Island? And did I read that bankruptcy document right? I'm sure I saw a 9.9 million bridge financing in SEPTEMBER! Who puts 10 million in a company to see it flop a month later? And to prove publicly to the world how clueless he is, Wilson even came out post bankruptcy in full support of Adam Kidron (see his interview on netslaves.com). UBO's investors are just as responsible for the mess as management for not holding them accountable. There is no good reason today why UBO isnt up and running with a 100-person or less staff , a simple but effective content publishing system (or even an expensive but proven package like Vignette) and a focus on three to five solid properties.
As for UE chasing away scared-rabbit investors from the space, PLEASE! If you're a VC reading this, and you are scared of the urban space, please head for the exit sign now. But the real players ought to be placing their bets now, because this space will be heating up again in in 1st and 2nd Qtr of 2001. And if anyone thinks that the short list of sites left have locked down anything you havent been paying attention. THe one bonafide success story, BlackPlanet shows that a well-executed site can ramp up over a milllion users in less than a year with practically no marketing dollars.
The real millennium starts in just a few weeks. Let the games begin.
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Joel,
I've had a change of heart about you O.G.
You see today on my way to work I saw this
old cat fall over and I tried to help him up,
but his pride made him refuse my help. I even
offered to let him use my phone to call someone,
but again he refused. So, I buzzed the j.o.
and told them I'd be late and waited with him
until he caught his breath then I walked him home,
two blocks away. On the way he told me about how
the hardest thing to accept about getting old is
knowing the rules of the game are changing, yet you're
still use to the old rules. Pops was deep. He
came with the heat and I've got to give up, so Joel
I'm sorry player - it's not that you're not in the
game it's just that you forgot they changed the rules.
Happy trails Digital Daddy...thanks for blazing the trail
to let me get in the game NOW MOVE YOUR ASS POPS!!!
Is it me or does something STANK?
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Let's cut to the chase:
Remember how Fox,WB and now UPN "pump and dump" black TV show to get their network off the ground?
Remember how many of the high scales stores "pump and dump" expensive Black fashion such as Cross Colors and Karl Kani to bring traffic back into their declining business?
If you know what I'm talking about then you probably also remember New Kids on the Block (new edition wannabes), the Osmonds (jackson 5 wannabes).
Now I know why VCs are throwing money at these 'urban web sites'.
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Joel,
A writer who doesn't respond? What's going on, can we get some feedback?
You wrote it, now defend it.
Peace,
Isidro Otis |
Thank you Shaan James for the most eloquent response to Joel's posting.
I for one am tired of the constant excuses for why things went wrong with UBO, when the real reason is that it simply self-destructed. No one killed UBO. UBO destroyed itself with their expenditures as well as their unrealistic marketing, content, and traffic strategies.
More importantly they gave the "urban" market a bad name. Now investors will remember the bad taste left in their mouths by UBO as opposed to the strides made by market leaders such as BlackPlanet.com and BET.com.
Could not have said it better myself.
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Ed D. hit it right on the head. Joel is sooo wrong in his assumption that VCs will stop funding 'urban' sites because of what is said here on UE.
VCs fund urban sites not because they believe we're a viable market, but because they know where "urban" culture goes (i.e. trendsetters), mainstream (i.e. big money white suburban) will follow.
It's been said here before, "we create it, they sell it." And make big money off of it.
Corporate America has never really cared about or catered to the urban market, period. We're nothing but excess funds; their real loot comes from the followers. Why else can you explain a beauty and hair industry who almost totally ignores black women while we spend almost three times as much our white counterparts.
As long as other cultures continue to follow and we allow them to sell "us" to "them", urban sites and everything else considered "urban" will exist. But "we" might not be creating them.
Our challenge is to us to create something that really represents all of us, and is not some sanitized, water-downed version that speaks to lowest common denominator.
Just my $.02
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Hey this place is the haven of the Disgruntal employee form the Urban Dot.com market. Love it OR LEAVE IT!
Go UE! |
HEY EVERYONE BUY THE NEW ERYKAH BADU ALBUM!!!!!!
It's a TRUE Masterpiece!!!!!
You go Erykah...Lauryn Hill can't come back hard like this! |
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Erykah's new album is dope sho nuff.
But don't sleep on my man Musiq. His joint will have any doubters who are calling him a "D'Angelo wannabee" feeling stupider then Joel Dreyfuss's Accountant
Check on tracks "You and Me" & "Girl next door"
OnE Luv to Power 95 live from the 215.
happy Thanksgiving to all my okayplayers and playahaters around the world. |
OK,
So everyone wants to know what happened to UBO
well, this is what I saw happen at UBO:
1) Music industry approach to technology business.
A big no-no. In the record industry, you may be
able to put out 5 lame, unexciting, uncompelling,
take-em or leave-em bands if you get one Wu-Tang
out of the bunch. Records/CDs/whatever still make
more money than web venures. This might not be the
case in a few years from now (noone ever thought
video games would outpace Hollywood in terms of
raw dollars but it happened). Too much money was
wasted on redesign upon redesign upon technology
overhaul upon technology overhaul.
A lot of people like to lay the blame on Tyrone
for this but I don't think that that is true. The
UBO CPS was not designed "to prevent editors from
publishing", though I understand Joel's frustration.
The business grew so quickly and so many promises
were made to so many different people (investors)
that the fact that UBO was able to launch 15 sites
in the last year is a small miracle of its own
There was never any breathing room for technology at
UBO to back up a step or two and work out the kinks
before they were given a new "top priority assignment".
That said, the technological solutions that were eventually
settled on were not adequate to the task and the fiasco with
IXL didn't help it either.
2)Incompetence and mismanagement at the highest levels.
Production and interaction design were headed by a man
with little to no production experience, poor management
skills, and very mediocre interaction design savy.
This is the basis of all processes in web development
and is where all final decisions of functionality,
process of implementation, and where all promises to
investers should begin.
I will not mention this person by name, but for those who
know, I'll say that all the faith in the world wasn't
enough to get the fat man to sign the check.
3) Inexperience and lack of expertise.
UBO was home to web content producers without mastery of
photoshop and no knowledge of html. UBO was where
basic laws of design like "you cant begin design exploration
without an established brand identity and logo" were not
only ignored but dismissed as elitist (perhaps not "urban"
enough).
4) Ineffective communication.
Plots within plots, subversion, subterfuge, guile, treachery,
feints within feints...the whole nine yards. Attempted coups
against the CTO when he's away on vacation, attempted coups against
the CEO (allegedly), attempted coups against the SVP of Product
Development...noone ever knew the whole story and people wanted it
that way.
No team effort. No circling the wagons. No coming together except for
an occassional "ra-ra" speech that I liken to Nero's fiery, fiddle
recitals.
5) Money.
The times are changing. Bush will probably be the next president. The
rich are about to get richer and they will probably be getting that
money, not from the poor so much as the petite-bourgoise, middle managers
that got to whoop it up and gain a few pounds over the Clinton years.
nobody has a few million to flush down the toilet for a "learning
experience" anymore.
UBO's burn rate was phenomenal and it got to the point where the men in
black suits and gold chained pocketwatches said "off with their heads" and
that, as they say, was that.
Regarding Joel's criticism of the way that people on this site voice their
criticism, I will say this:
I have seen some of the most unprofessional, regressive, pathetic, and base
comments on this board and because of that lost interest in this site a
while ago in terms of participation
As it is, I am freelancing now and, yes, I do have the time to indulge this.
I personally have a lot of respect for Joel Dreyfus as would anyone else
who really got the chance to work with him. I cant say that for everyone
that I worked with at UBO but there were a few gems in the bunch, as is to be
expected anywhere.
I think that everyone should look at the failure of UBO as a warning sign. Things
are changing right now as we speak and the future of "urban whatever" is on very
precarious ground. Learn a lesson: attitude, a jiggy perspective and good
intentions are not enough. |
and in the middle of all of this volume.com launched.... |
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For all the UE bashing I've been reading recently, it still has to be said that this site , much akin to College, has it's ups and downs, but ultimately the user benefits and leaves more enriched. This site gives an EDUCATED techinical audience a chance to speak on technology, politics of business, the business and politics, as well as countless other topics that no other site offers. Nobody can knock UE's hustle for that. |
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Is this a foray in revenue generation I see from UE? I know the going rate for e-mail registrations is about $0.50. |
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I got 3 words for ya!!! REMEMBER THE TITANS!!!!!! |
Ok, y'all all sit here and dump on the urban media you DON'T like. If you were putting together a magazine or web site geared towards the "urban" audiance (for the sake of argument, let's define that as people of color, around 15-31 in metropolitan areas, or even just people in metropolitan areas) what would you have in it? For full disclosure, I'm also asking this because I may be taking on a business manager/ marketing director position at an design firm/urban media company
(www.smacktv.com). I'd like this company to become successful, and I definately don't want it to end up torn apart here, because y'all have NO mercy. (Good thing it's in DC instead of NY, y'all NY cats put ALL the business out). |
The question was posed "Why did VC's give people like this that type of money
Well lets look at it like this..... Why is it when certain things go down in the Black Community they always call Jessie Jackson??? Because that is all they know.
my biggest problem with Black America, has always been that we look to entertainers to be our saviors, in business (how many times have you heard this one " If Oprah, Magic and Michael could get together blacks could own more things), Social Ills (Place any rappers name here "_____" could you please tell us why the blacks just are killing each other, stealing and selling drugs?? It seems like your music promotes that?? Rappers response "Well you know I am just telling it like it is KEEPING IT REAL!!!!" . Or the most famous rappers on religion " The winner of best new artist MC Bling Blunt for his hit single "I smack hoes and smoke toes" rappers acceptance..... I like to thank GOD through him all things are possible??????
White America has done this always because this people are artist not BUSINESS people. Why don't they call people like Roy Roberts GM, Kenneth Chenaut American Express, The Black Cat that runs Symatic (Norton Antivirus). You know why?? Because if the Shit blows big it easier to kick out a entertainer than a true business man because they have seen that backroom dealing shit before. For all you New Yorkers think about all of those Restaurants they pump up and say that a black person owns it, then when you really check it out it is two crackers in the back counting all that black money. Folks from Chitown look how they did your cultural ICON Mike Jordan, sales dip a little and now they want to Kick MJ to the curb and put the newest Uncle Tom ERRR... I mean athlete Sammy Sosa on the wall.
Here They reasons listed
1. Control
2. A lot of these VC's get star struck; if you do not believe me check out MJ's fantasy camp and see how many old white will pay 50,000 G's just to take a picture with him
3. White people have a hard time respecting black business people
4. These entertainers have smart business managers who know how to leverage the clients name IE Magic, Magic do not know half the shit he owns but I know his white boy lawyer does
5. Again the Urban=Black syndrome. Blacks spend all this money lets ask a basketball player he will know
6. Also VC's are some dumbmother fuckers. Quick example I was workin with a client to get VC' funding (I tell you Mr. Sinister is deep in this shit) You know what a VC told us for every 31 ventures funded only 1 goes full term. So this is not unreal that this happens all the time.
So guys if you are looking for funding there is are several incubators, do your research make sure you have a tight 3 year plan, and a backup 5 year one, NARROW your scope test run it then try to get in one of those incubator programs. I have had 2 clients make the first cut only to be knocked down. You know why because they had the tech talent but not the management understanding. I and in the end it was the correct choice. So for all young creative minds here is a great road map follow Netscape"s example, Marc got in Marc got out and he is straight looted
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^^ interesting stuff. nice post. |
Did ANYBODY besides me get the feeling this whole post was a parody of the regular UE stories? I think some people took it seriously. |
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Ok, y'all all sit here and dump on the urban media you DON'T like. If you were putting together a magazine or web site geared towards the "urban" audiance (for the sake of argument, let's define that as people of color, around 15-31 in metropolitan areas, or even just people in metropolitan areas) what would you have in it? For full disclosure, I'm also asking this because I may be taking on a business manager/ marketing director position at an design firm/urban media company
(www.smacktv.com). I'd like this company to become successful, and I definately don't want it to end up torn apart here, because y'all have NO mercy. (Good thing it's in DC instead of NY, y'all NY cats put ALL the business out).
>>
Learn as much as you can about your target audience. It would be good if you are in the target audience as well.
Having said that ... I'm 21 and colorful, so I would you be in your target audience.
1. I'm not a big fan of flash right now (use it liberally). I'm an old skool net head so I'm not big on frames, flash and basically anything that slows down or makes my surfing inconvenient. I'm not saying dumb down your site, just make sure that the majority of your users actually enjoy the experience (in the beginning and after every redesign put up a feedback and bug report form so users can send in comments).
2. Track the hell out of your users. Know where they are going, what pages they like to visit, what they want (search logs -- if you allow a site search). Once you know that, you can create an experience that is relevant to what your users want.
3. A lot of ebusinesses overlook this but I think it's the most important. Pick a good hosting provider (if the site doesn't load quickly all the stuff above is no longer relevant). Next, if you have dedicated servers make sure they are secure e.g. installing a firewall, log checking software (to spot problems and security violations in your logfiles), software to help find vulnerabilities in your server(s). If your server is hacked and you have to go down for any length of time it can hurt you.
4. Make sure your code is clean and works in both browsers (especially IE). Also, learn from your mistakes -- your database (or whatever else) should never crash or produce an error for the same reason twice.
Oh and another thing load your real audio/videos in a small pop-up window. On my home machine I have real player installed, but on my laptop I only have the real plugin so if the site doesn't load the video (or audio) in the browser I can't see and hear it w/out downloading the player. The advantages of loading it in a pop-up window are: (i) users who have the player and those w/ just the plugin can both see your video (hear your audio) (ii) you can design a little face plate for that popup and that can serve as player of sorts with your own branding.
anyway good luck with your site. |
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Look,
Before I shut down blackindex.com on friday and put of the new site here is a thanksgiving gift for you peeps trying to figure out what blacks are looking for online:
http://www.blackindex.com/search/searchwords.txt
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Mr. Dreyfuss,
Having read your piece here, and being a former UBO employee, I can agree with you on certain points. I do believe that many people get on board UE (which incidentally is not so much a site as the largest message board online..kind of like the LIE being the largest parking lot in the Tri-State Area), to do nothing but open their holes and rant. I also agree that the nature of how things are done here can expose the bad apples along with the intelligent thinkers that also come here to debate, rather than to just "bait."
However, had more impressive journalism come forth from the annals of the overcrowded unhealthy 31st street space, along such lines as the above and less sites and content promoting such washups as Heather Hunter (I can't believe that positive minded people of any race would spend money devoting a fantastic animation piece on a strung out porno actress that invariably would cut half the market down from watching such a site, because of it's adult content.) Had it been Venus Williams, kids and adults could have enjoyed watching the kick ass superhero and the likes. I realize that fantasy is a good thing, but when it is gratuitous, it's useless. If Bamboozled is your litmus test for the description of the UE audience and participants, please then explain to me the mentality behind the LukeWorld site....it that isn't Bamboozled at the very zenith of it's creed...I don't know what is.
The truth is, I have yet to see any site represent the "URBAN" community to it's maximum yet. Everyone is trying to be a cartoon, or a graffiti art symposium. Adam Kidron spent a lot of time and hot air, insisting that the concept of UBO was to promote Urban concepts, but if that's true, then why did the ad campaign look like a poorly shot GAP commercial, and why didn't I see as many sites devoted to the music coming out of the Knitting Factory and CBGB's, as I did SOHH.
The only site which came close to that ideal, was IndiePlanet...but most unfortunately, as wonderful an idea as that was, it was (acceptedly) run by an artist not a businessman, who should have been the creative person and not the President of the site. The IndiePlanet staff, also had for the most part, the most intellectual and talented people working for it (with the exception of people who worked for Streaming Media and Othervision). These people were the very concept that Mr. Kidron preached so about, and he was the first to start cutting away at the staff, when he should have been reassigning the managment of the site. Instead, he chose to put his mustard behind the sites making the money, and unfortunately, those are your "Bamboozled" sites.
The truth is, UE has nothing to do with dissolution of UBO. I won't argue however, that the mentality of it's staff, as evidence by such postings, was less than par, but having worked at UBO, I saw that firsthand in the office. The former Human Resources department (or lack thereof), allowed for the hiring of people who shouldn't be working in a high professional setting. I must also discredit anyone who would hire David Watkins, a most odious creature with a fantastically checkered past, to head the marketing department, and no less buy his failed ICON enterprise. This is a man who owed dozens of past employees money, and proved to be nothing more than a glossy catering service. If crudite was all we needed, he was certainly overqualified.
I won't even speak about my own dealings with the injustices and just bordering on illegal dealings within UBO. I am too happy to be free and back to making art. I wish you luck, and hope you take your message to a source where it won't read as Monday Morning Quarterback fodder. |
For Abiola -- what to do, what to do
Decide what the focus of your site is going to be and stick with it. When you start changing based on what everyone else is doing you already start losing the battle. Study trends on the internet.
One definite point...MAKE THE CONTENT INTELLIGENT. Just because someone is 15 doesn't mean they are only into music, movies and games...If you look at most of the sites they don't ask the end users to think or they assume that they are not thinking.
1) Do an in house analysis of what the "urban" sites are doing. Get some traffic numbers on how many page views they are getting per month, how many visitors daily...etc. Also if your target audience is 15-31, you are definitely looking at a base of people who may or may not have computers so you have to target the parents also. Do some focus groups...in different parts of the country if possible.
2) HIre people who know the internet space. Look at their resume's. If you look at the management teams of most of the NY based web sites most of their managment teams are from entertainment based companies. Just because someone is a VP of marketing in a different industry doesn't mean that they have the skills to brand and market a new web site.
3) Hire people who not only know the internet space but also are users of the space. Anyone you hire should be able to dialog with you about sites that are similar to yours and also sites that may not focus on your market but have the same kind of content.
4) Do research on what salaries are for particular jobs. And also most importantly don't staff up to heavily. That is a caveat for ALL web companies. You don't need 300 people to run an effective and hot web site. Most of the more successful companies started and ran for 1-2 years with staffs of less than 50 people. This is also helpful when you are trying to get VC money because one of the first things they do is look at how large your staff is and suggest layoffs.
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O. Abiola Akintola
Don't go into the Internet business thinking you can get rich by 29..that shit only happens in the Bay Area and Seattle.....not NYC or East Coast...
Unless you are a partner and have options that will vest in 6 months or have a performance bonus attached, don't get bent on making this company suceed without getting paid in return.
I'm amazed that many people joined UBO without options or the goal to take it public..
Review the management resumes and attitude carefully, not prejudging but many black-orientated business are run by some brothers/sisters with serious ego problems and believe they can lead through a divided workplace.
Frankly the best advice I can give you is when they offer you the compensation package. If you don't see a nice salary, 3 week vacation, 250,000 stock options or a guaranteed quarterly performance bonus.unlimited AMEX card to pay for classes and trips..you are wasting your time.... |
That this dude's definition of "urban" includes Erykah Badu and Joshua Redman...two artists that get MORE than enough light...proves how lost he truly is.
I got ya undetected urban...Steve Coleman and 5 Elements, anyone? Geri Allen with Cassandra Wilson and Greg Osby style? Oh, my bad...maybe you take your jazz like you take your reality..."smooth".
Please, when will these suits accept the fact that when you seek the corner office your cool points and ghetto pass is revoked? |
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Abiola,
Give your users resources that aren't redundant. For
instance, if a user is looking for information on college
scholarships and grants don't just provide a link to some
obscure site that hasn't been updated in three months. If
you affilitate market your site don't just hook up with space
occupiers that have no viable products or services to offer
your users just to generate traffic. There's nothing worst than
sites bogged down with useless info to take up space. More is not
always better. Keep the design simple. Minimize or eliminate
the flash. Don't include a chat board unless you have content
that can sustain that board. Contrary to what some would have
you believe not everyone on chat boards in looking to get their
eFlirt on, besides there's already a blackplanet.com for that.
If you're looking to make the foray into eCommerce you have to
offer items that are unique and different which appeal to your
demographic without being condescending. If someone wants to
purchase Phat Farm why would they purchase it from you as opposed
to logging on their site and buying it there? Don't be the middleman
that's just in the way of a better deal and don't peddle goods
that you don't believe in. Have some integrity, even in business
your customers will respect you for not insulting them with yet
another marketing ploy to get them to buy stuff they don't need
or could simply buy off-line.
Good luck to you.
P.S. Don't post your URL here until you're comfortable with what
you've come up with, because truthfully I'll be the first to tear
down your IPO dreams without mercy. |
Oh, just so y'all know what I'm bringing to the table:
www.omegadawn.com
(I'm COO and creative/tech writer, its a print/graphic design firm)
www.soulunderground.com
(Will be web content manager once site gets up, it's a cultural marketing/ promotions/ event planning company)
www.entindustry.com
(An entertainment consulting firm, I'm personal assistant to the CEO)
You all may think that's too much going on, But I figure one of these fledgling ventures will make some $ eventually, so I'd better get in where I fit in. |
Peace.
Is it me or is sohh.com a done deal? I went to visit & they were gone, vanished without a trace...
Hmmm.
mj |
Guys if you remember my earier post I talked about selling shit that people with GOOD CREDIT want mainly targeting an older demo. Well I saw a post about a guy saying he is going to try to target 15-31 people of color. Let me hip you to a few things
I do not know how many of you read the McPaper (USA TODAY) but on the downlow they have a pretty good business section for a non-business people. They had an article that backs up about narrowing your scope and who to target in e-commerece
I am not going to POST the WHOLE DAMN article just key points and here it is
Anderson Consulting (One of the best internet consulting firms out) and eBranding did a study and guess what here is what they found
A heavy online user spends more that $100.00 a month here are what the age demos are doing
18-24 13% (Most have no credit cards they may want the stuff but have to pay cash for it they use the web like the old sears book you look for the shit that you wanted then you went to Sears to get it.)
25-34 36%
35-44 29%
45 and up 33%
Now look at this over half would be considered your parents age? Do you consider your parents URBAN????? Sorry not my mama she hates rap, big pants and loose morals. And folks guess what this not not going to change. So of you cannot even get a bank account never the less a credit card. And you know what they also make over half of the purchases period!!
Now here are a few things that sell and some I am working on in the Black "Urban" World
1. ART!!!!! Because most of us cannot find good art are searching the net for it
2. Books!!!! That right it is number 2 if you are on the net you do probably like to read. Because you know why? As of right now the net is a read only medium (please do not say anything about the future of Steaming I know its coming see you 5 years from now
3. Music (Stolen music that is... Say what you want about Napster but when I see cats on the block by The Sinister Offices selling the best of TUPAC and BIGGIE on ONE CD I knew that Napster was going Down). I know little cats right now making a cool 500.00 a week selling "MIX CD's" or greatest hits shit. Hell my ex-girl used to buy every CD single out now guess what she bought a burner know she is off the hook. That reminds me I need to download TP-2......
4. Vacation info, flights, trips, cruises. This is a big money maker we hosted a trip for Memorial day and signed up over 1,000 people just by emailing (if you want more info its something for the grown folks shoot me an email for more info
So once again NARROW YOUR SCOPE YOUNG JEDI. For the guy how is looking for that job let me throw a few things at you on my "NARROW YOUR SCOPE THEORY"
You said you are trying to hit 15-31???? and People of Color????
1. You just did a marketing FUBAR!!! You cut across at least 3 defined age demos
2. That sight apparently is going to be huge
3. There are only 3 Companies that can hit that demo
3A. McDonalds (get kids addicted to those damn happy meals and guess what A parent just has to order a Value Meal
3B. Disney same deal
3C. Video game market, My boy gets his ASS KICKED my his Son on MADDEN, As a sidebar ladies learn how to play video games it will help your relationship
4. Targeting people of color. Here is a FRIENDLY but stern warning.... "YOU CANNOT BE ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE".
4A. Here are quick examples of that myth. Mexicans like COUNTRY MUSIC, Most others Hispanics like Afro-carribean rhythms
4B. There is a BIG DIFERENCE between the ASIAN Nationalites if you do not believe me date a Chinese chick compared to a Korean BIG difference
4C. Now something dear to my heart....Chris Rock said it best... Black people VS. NIGGAS, As WE ALL KNOW BIG BIG DIFERENCE
5. How are you going to promote to such a broad range??? You know how the best sites get traffic??? WORD OF MOUTH and I am telling you as much as people think that people of Different nationalities are talking to each other they are not. Look at the political system in Houston. Black mayor builds coliation, Mexicans, progessive whites, Blacks..... But guess what the Mexicans are already looking to break ranks at have the FIRST HISPANIC MAYOR, everybody is out for themselves.
this why UBO failed.
Lukeword- This should have been a sure fire moneymaker you know why??? The should have been working on the most profitable thing on the NET SELLING PRIVATE PEEP SHOWS for 5.95 and Porno tapes Hell they already got Heather Hunter freak ass they could have made one of her blowing and fucking the whole UBO management staff and made money. See Joel you had surefire money maker right under your nutsack and didnot know it. Shit from all the posts here it looks like your were doing it for free
this would have brought in a 1,000,000.00 by itself
Indieplanet - Stop selling FUCKING CISCO Routers and sell the indie vibe, specialized incensts, Off the wall posters, BOOKS!!!!! ART!!!
Otherworld- Got a deal I heard so maybe it will happen, needed to reach out to the college market who could have pushed the shit onto MYV
SoulPurpose- This was more difficult but here is what I would have done, Worked for Offline branding get down with one of those Big Time party promoters, Chris Latimer, or Dough Boy Entertainment of Atlanta and cobrand your shit, show you could set up tours, college shit and all that
Shine 365- Cool plus anything you do here could have been a tax writeoff. They should have set the motherfucker up as a 501C3 to get non-profit status and then they really could have done shady shit
And I would kill the rest because I saw no money making ways. because they would have to have done sponsorship deals on traffic and we all know they had as much traffic as those small towns with one light after 11:00 PM NONE!!!!
As a side note there is nothing funnier to me than going on Andy Platinum's message board and that bitch is TOTALLY EMPTY. Hey Platinum you know about those 20,000,00 folks you have on your list some commmunity support!!!! By the way where the hell is my Soulpurpose News letter???? Did they cut off your AOL account to????
So to my man go for the job do the marketing research have a marketing plan prepared and ask for at least 72,500
RU Sinsister asking the all important question.... "What the FUCK IS URBAN ANYWAY????"
Oh I will give you my breakdown on Volume as soon as UE posts it I like to Stick to the String |
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try www.sohh.com its worked for me |
constructive criticism and analysis is one thing.
name calling and straight up liing on people is another.
if we can learn something from other peoples mistakes, cool.
but the people at ue have got their finger on the pulse of
this web thing because it should be interactive (not that
flash shit), but interactive in the way of idea and
information sharing. you have to take everything you read on the web
and in general with a grain of salt (by the way, it's official,
reagan has won the 2000 presidential election by 1 vote).
to say that "Urban Exposé threatens to become a minstrel
show for the Web, a dot-com doodah in digital
blackface. But then as Spike points out in
"Bamboozled," in these times of sellable
ethnicity, anything that's a hit justifies its own
existence" is over the top.
to say "Urban Exposé's brutal exchanges fit nicely into
the current (and recurring) stereotype that
anything "authentically" urban has to be raw,
unsophisticated and uncontrolled -a narrow
definition" is to discount the opinions of the
[urban] market you were/are trying to serve. don't get
mad when people tell you your shit stinks. clean it up. |
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RU Sinister,
Crate and Barrel know what urban is, Saks 5th Avenue know what urban is and Citibank know what urban is.......
Go downtown, look at all the races of people shopping/doing business at these places spending big time loot.loading up their luxury SUVs with $5-10K worth of shit on the weekend.then you will know what urban really is
Oh and while you are downtown, I think there is probably a black bookstore in the area, go in there and look around...then you will realized what I realized in what is urban and what is black....
So the question is do you want to run citibank or a black bookstore?
Commentary: I'm usually in the Barnes and Noble African-American section..unless I want to read some Bullshit on Black male/female relationship or how Sony was founded by a Black man in the 1800s.....
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ONE DAY WE - AFRICAN AMERICANS - ARE GONNA WAKE UP AND REALIZE THAT WE AS A PEOPLE, AS A TOTAL GROUP, ARE ALL JACKED UP. NOT AS INDIVIDUALS, BUT AS A GROUP.
SOME OF US SEEK A HIGHER MORAL GROUND AND SOME OF US ARE TRAILER TRASH. AND SINCE SO MUCH OF US DON'T HAVE THE HOME TRAINING TO PRACTICE RESTRAINT, IT MAKES US ALL LOOK LIKE A BUNCH OF UNTRAINED MONKEYS AND FUCKS IT UP FOR THE REST OF US WHO ARE TRYING TO LIVE LIFE LIKE CIVILIZED FUCKIN ADULTS
SURE, URBAN EXPOSE IS ALLOWED TO GO ON AND SURE URBAN EXPOSE IS A SOLID WEB-BASED PLATFORM THAT DOESN'T COST MUCH TO RUN, BUT SO WHAT.
WHAT IT REALLY IS IS A SITE THAT REPRESENTS THE COKE-COLA THAT IS POURED OVER A RAW PORK CHOP...IT BRINGS OUT THE MAGGOTS THAT LAY LATENT IN THE PORK CHOP. THESE FOOLS ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD REPRESENT THE MAGGOTS AND THE ENTIRE AFRICAN AMERICAN RACE REPRESENTS THE PORK CHOP.
WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IS THAT BLACK FOLKS ARE GONNA GRADUALLY START ACTING LIKE REPUBLICANS AND TURNING THEIR BACK ON AN ENTIRE CLASS.
NOBODY HAS TIME TO FUCK AROUND WITH DUMB ASS SIMPLE PEOPLE LIKE THE ONES THAT POST DUMB SHIT ON URBAN EXPOSE
GOD I WISH I KNEW WHO YALL WERE SO I KNEW NOT TO SAY SHIT TO YA CUZ YOU ACT LIKE YOU GOT A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE OR SOMETHING - YOU MIGHT SNAP.
AND YOU PROBABLY LIKE THAT SHIT TOO. LIKE A DERANGED ANIMAL YOU JUST LIKE THE ATTENTION AND USE THAT TO FEED YOUR TWISTED MIND TO PERPETUATE YOUR RETARDED WAY OF THINKING AND ACTING.
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BUT JOEL!!!!! OL' HANKERCHIEF HEAD
WHAT IN THE FUCK DID YOU KNOW ABOUT NEW MEDIA!!!!!!!!
NADA-FOOL!!!!
I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YO' NAACP, UNITED NEGRO COLLEGE FUND, SOUTHERN LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE BOUGIE ASS CREDENTIALS-
OLD NEGRO CONSERVATISM HAS NO PLACE IN NEW MEDIA-
YOU LIKE ALOT OF YOUR UNDERQUALIFED MANAGEMENT POTNAS AND WANNABE FLOSSERS BASKED IN MEDIOCRITY-CAUSE THAT'S WHAT WHITE PEOPLE WANT FROM FOOLS LIKE YOU-
YOU FUCKED UP!!! NOW DEAL WIT IT BRUTHA!!
I'M A HATA !!!!!!!!!!! HATA FO LIFE!!!!!!
FO LIFE- RECOGNIZE!!!!
THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE ME AWAY HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHA |
Who cares what this old Geek has to say
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From: crispus@html.net [mailto:crispus@html.net]
Sent: *******, 2000 5:07 PM
To: wwwac@lists.wwwac.org
Subject: [wwwac] HELP: Urban Entertainment site with IE/NS issues
Greetings and Salutations
I'm having really nasty problems with the cross-platform compatibility of my site (www.urbanexpose.com). I'm pretty sure its either the tables or the stylesheets causing the problem but I can see anything wrong with the tags.
Here are the problems, in Netscape the article headers are not displaying,
Netscape also does not accept the font commands and formats the tables different then IE.
I've tested the site using IE 5 and Netscape 4.5, the site was built using fireworks and dreamweaver, the server is using .php for html generation. All extra eyes, ideas and input on whats wrong with urbanexpose.com will be
accepted
and appreciated.
Thanks
Cris
"The undergrounds not about being exposed, so you better take your naked ass and put on some clothes!"- de la soul (how fitting)
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Joel Dreyfuss
Before I actually analyze your post, I would like to thank you for actually taking the time to post on Urban Expose about your UBO experience. I found it rather interesting that you are the first executive from an "Urban" site to actually post in Urban Expose under your real name. I will give you credit for having a great deal of fortitude, if you bother to respond to one of the many posts on your editorial.
You have an impressive background in print journalism and I will give you the benefit of the doubt in your understanding of current trends in African American and Diaspora culture. You could probably produce content that would read better than ninety-nine percent of the people who have bothered to post on UE.
I think your background, however is part of the problem.
That being said, I’ll start the thrashing.
Where was the great content? Other than the piece in Salon magazine, nothing motivated me to visit and look at any message board thread, news article or feature article on UBO.net in its entire existence. NOTHING. I received no "must read" email message from one of my friends or associates about an article on a UBO.net site. ZIP.
Don’t say it was the content-management system.
What the fuck did you do in print publications? Did UBO.net have hamster-driven stone tablets instead of computers? Why didn’t you decide to use MS Word and have a few people in charge of publishing the FINAL copy to the content management system? Was that TOO FUCKING LOGICAL?
The lack of content is YOUR fault. You Joel Dreyfuss.
Where was the compelling content?
When I finally visited UBO.net, it was to laugh at the ridiculous waste of time and money.
I admit, I SAVORED the feeling of Schauden Freude from UBO.net’s missteps more than other company’s posted on FuckedCompany.com or other such sites.
How could I do such a thing?
How could I laugh while my "brothers" were in such dire straits?
It was easy.
I laughed because of the sheer arrogance of it all. How could a staff of "senior executives" and "seasoned venture capitalists" turn a blind eye to the spending habits, launch party excesses and staffing debacles?
The harsh analysis of UBO.net and other "Urban Space" players has nothing to do with self-hatred it has to do with accountability.
When your company hires 300 people for a few anemic sites.
I laughed at you.
If you complain about your "authority over many UBO sites."
I pointed and FUCKING rolled around on the floor laughing at you.
That’s what we do from the peanut gallery. We wait for every opportunity to laugh our asses off, as we secretly wish we were on stage. Laughing passes the time as we wait for our chance to get in the game. Would you want us to cry instead? Should we cry, because your company was going to do such a great service to us poor Negroes? Should we cry because you pissed away Millions of dollars of VC money? Enough money, by the way, to have collectively funded most of the ideas the budding entrepreneurs on this site talk about?
FUCK THAT.
Now that you are crying in your milk because it is all over don’t expect any sympathy. I don’t give a fuck. If you want to blame me, cause I told you that you were walking around naked, instead of dressed in million dollar garments-- I don’t give a fuck either.
Were you planning on hooking UEr’s up with shares just before your IPO?
Fuck No
You were in the game mostly for the money and ego-trip like everyone else.
If you couldn’t take the heat you should have gotten out of the FUCKING chair you should have given up the VC money and gone home.
I have taken the resources UBO.net had in an instant, and I wouldn’t have worried about the niggers in the peanut gallery.
I remember a state playoff game I had in high school. We lost. I cried my eyes out after the game. My cousin told me this "If you tried your best, you have nothing to cry about." I still cried. I KNEW I hadn’t done my best. I suspect that you KNOW you didn’t do your best either.
If you were smart you would take the time to gather ideas and perhaps look at putting some of the smaller players in the game. You could probably give many of the folks on UE boards an angel round of funding your DAMN self.
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Oh yeah I forgot.
Fuck UE too for that matter.
I highly doubt any of these people give a fuck about UE either. They just want a place to express their opinions on Urban Media, and right now UE happens to be it.
UE is one of the many slashdot clones with half-ass articles.
So, Mr. Dreyfuss, why don't you download slash code and try to steal UE's audience.
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Is it just me, or do most people people on this site don't recognize that there's a world outside of the US? Or is the internet only a nat'l thing that Al Gore created?? |
Hey Ed D. I am feeling your quote "Crate and Barrel know what urban is, Saks 5th Avenue know what urban is and Citibank know what urban is.......
But let throw somthing at you... If that is Urban well everyone of these So called Urban Sites just totally missed their Demo. Do you think those folks are going to Volume, 360, UBO, BlackPlanet, hell even Napster I doubt it. The people you are talking about are not Urban they are RICH suburbanites!! You know why I say that. Lets just describe your scene, most people would think that is New York, Philly, Chicago well guess what.. you could have also just described downtown NASHVILLE, BIRMINGHAM and Charlotte. And trust me In the great words of Lloyd Benson for the 88 debates. I knew Urban I worked with Urban and Nasville ain't no Urban!!! And guess what those people you just defined are the "true people who are buying shit off the net. Why
1. They have computers IN THEIR HOMES
2. GOOD CREDIT (Because trust me they ain't writing 5,000.00 checks they are charging that shit
3. An you know what I bet those people you described at between the ages of 35-50
If you look at consumer trends magazine each one of those business are after that real underlying demo you described, White Soccer Moms spending their white Husbands loot. That is why really what Urban means is this. A white kid in Nebraska wearing an Allen Iverson jersey while a black kid has that same jersey in Philly. Now how do you tie the two together? Playstation and Sega.net are damn sure trying. Do you think their parents are on the same vibe HELL no!!! Kids in Nebraska parents voted for Bush while the the Philly parents voted for Gore, different mindsets different people. That is why the question what the FUCK is URBAN anyway??? still stands!!!.
Oh here is something for you about the bank or the bookstore. My granddaddy (College grad class of 1939 Jackson College now known as Jackson State University) said to me Two things to try to be the landowner or the person who loans the landowner the money to buy the land. So either way you will have a place to land your feet that is yours. So give me the bank anytime.
R.U. Sinister asking the all important question.... What the Fuck is URBAN anyway??? |
Okay, enough is enough. Bottom line...UBO DESERVED TO FAIL. I agree with the former posting that said "I laughed at the arrogance of it all." Man, that is so right on. UBO was nothing except arrogance, nonsense and a bunch of people with way too much money and no brains on how to use it most effectively. However, I wish to bring up a more interesting point.
UBO...hired a man, so particularly scathing to oversee the lowlies, that I couldn't really believe that this was the same company preaching the bullshit about the "urban" (which to them...translated as black, don't let them fool you.) people rising up to "run thangs," hired a specimen to keep the dogs in the pen. When Bill Goins came on board, it was as if the true inner fiber of Mr. Kidron came out full throttle. Sure, he wanted to be a reggae star, sure he wanted to be down, but only if his uberwhite police officer was around to protect him from the unmentionables....
So, I ask you, is that "urban thinking?" |
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this is off the topic, but ... has anybody heard that SYLVIA's is now doing hair care products now? |
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oh lawd its true peep the website
http://www.sylviassoulfood.com/BSbodyWash.html |
Folks when Sylvia's the food co. is manufacturing a fragrance called "I Can See Clearly Now" things have clearly gone too far.
I can see clearly we need to stop the madness.
Case of UBO-itis: Biting off more than one can chew. Establish yourself as a household name (in households outside the tri-state area) and become the champion of your established product before you start selling herbal miracle grow, and perm revitalizer.
Not to hate. Sylvia's could be an incredible franchise business. |
Slyvia's is also starting a chain at Kennedy airport, I believe I read that in the New York Daily News either last month or in September...
Pretty wild if ya ask me... |
Interesting fodder from Frank Cooper as quoted in Black Enterprise's recent article, "Black Dotcom Shakeup" in the December 2000 issue.
Cooper believes the current shakeout will bring more instability to what was an increasingly segmented space and "force companies that don't have a sustainable business model out of the marketplace."
But Cooper says relative to television or motion pictures, UBO.net's content is 'a fraction of the cost.' Animated content is about one tenth the cost of an offline piece," he says.
"The major challenge right now is to preserve cash and grow at the same time. Until April, most of these companies were focused on building traffic without generating revenue." Additionally, he counters, UBO.net has "multiple sources" of revenue. "We develop content for distribution television (OH REALLY?), satellite and wireless" he adds. "We have an extensive strategic research department devoted to understanding the urban market."
"There's likely to be further carnage in the space," says Cooper. "Sites that have the ability to preserve their cash and grow their audience are the ones that will survive."
I just have to ask, who knew that God had blessed Mr. Cooper with the gift of prophecy? I wonder if I could get him to tell me this week's lottery numbers. Hmm.. |
To be honest, the constant up-in-smoke drama of these companies going out of business is really a microcosm of the shakeout of the internet space on a whole...It seems particularly fucked up for us because we have been struggling for so long to achieve some parity somewhere on the business/entrepreneurship front with white America, that our efforts and failures seem more magnified....That being said, too many of these sites are still holding to the misunderstanding that success means flossing as much as possible, having constant p.r. about your company being associated with various big willies while the content offered has suffered. What happened to the concept of controlled growth? When does someone explain to VC's that the ability to become a branded entity rests SOLELY on providing end-users with an experience which is so satisfactory that they become REPEAT users and NOT on seeing who can throw the most lavish party? To be more to the point, when do the management teams of these sites understand the concept of creating a brand as opposed to creating a flash-in-the pan product? Admittedly, the need to generate revenue to provide ROI on the massive infusion of investment capital(o.k, relatively puny investment sums) is paramount but did any of these business plans account for the fact that as the internet moves along at lightspeed in terms of the millions of websites and features that it offers, that our people STILL lag behind in the most important denominators of all---possession of hardware, technical know-how to configure or buy their systems to take advantage of the features offered on these sites and the fact that some of these sites were just so cluttered with sub-standard content that it was just too painful to stay on them?? Let's see what these failures have taught these management teams....better still, let's see who figures out that like most entities offline who have created strong brands, success is a result of educating your target consumer, reinforcing your particular unique attributes....and developing SOME unique attributes TO talk about ! Not just hoping that 'black' or 'urban' or any other phrase du jour to describe us used as a prefix to your site will result in brand loyalty........Kudos to UE for providing a forum, no matter how vitriolic at times, for open speech. Sometimes bullshit has to be called out by name to be dragged out into plain view.... |
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But didnt SYLVIAS sell that business to the MARRIOTT corp? and wasnt UBO doing something with SYLVIAS, but as far as a franchise, i dont think the one in ATL is doing that well so but if the MARRIOTT is still behind it who knows? |
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Hey Joel can you tell me where the ICON crew went from UBO? |
Thanks to those who responded to my question about creating a quality
urban media product. I had the interview and alas, the principal can't pay me right away. But he's talking equity, etc. What he wants to turn his site (www.smacktv.com) into is a aRude or Black Book magazine online, an urban avant garde, progressive culture type thing, for the DC/Baltimore Area. With online vending, webcasting, all that. He's trying to get at VC but I already let him know he should just stick to ecommerce for now. Instead of working for him for no pay, I'm going to contract out the services of
eI, conglomerate made up of OmegaDawn Grafix (www.omegadawn.com), entIndustry (www.entindustry.com) and various other designers, artisans, and consultants. Any people here from the DC/ Baltimore Area (or anywhere else for that matter) interested in our services, or collaborating, email me. |
I am motivated to post for the first time by Joel's post. First let me say I do not believe for one moment that urbanexpose is responsible for the recent downfall of black sites. To suggest they are gives the site too much credit. The woes of UBO and other urban sites cannot be blamed on urbanexpose. At the same time, the tone of the site does appear overly negative. One needs to look only at their name which UE itself defines as exposing the discreditable. I'm not sure urban sites are necessarily discreditable nor would I ascribe that attribute to the founders of most urban websites. I don't think people go into business to trick or to deceive people, save for FUBU, but thats another story altogether. UE has the right and the freedom to organize itself anyway it likes but as Joel points out its structure invites and perhaps even encourages libelous claims. I'm not sure if it has a legal duty to minimize such claims but I feel it may have a moral obligation to its readers to do so. Thus, some of Joel's suggestions might be heeded. Otherwise, UE may never rise to the level of credibility where it could possibly one day actually have the clout to shut down a site in the way Tom Joyner tried to "shut down" black purchasing at CompuServe. Aside from this, I personally enjoy UE's articles. They are insightful and appear to have some legitamacy to them. Whether the site is based on self-hate, I don't think so. It is a hard-charging, deeply analytical site which so far has not been wrong too often. Perhaps UE's role one day might be to act as a consultant to companies and individuals interested in creating an urban website. You have to admit, they have not been wrong very often. At the same time, I think it would be good to highlight less-known websites and to balance out their hard reporting with a softer positive tone at times where warranted. There are dozens of low-budget, small websites that do cater to the AA community in a very positive way which could benefit from constructive criticism and which would probably be much more willing to listen than the UBOs and BETs of the world. |
What has me shocked and surprised by some of the people who have posted on this article ( Joel included ) is the fact that they take issue with the "rough" or "negative" tone that permates this site... which is not creator content drive and is instead basically a USERS FORUM. Have these people ever been on a BBS on the net? Ever been in a chatroom? It seems to me like they haven't. I sometimes find things that heads on UE say to be somewhat harsh, but I was a long time participant on a spirituality bulliten board system where the arguments, name calling and "street tactics" got WAY more down-n-dirty than the fare most UEers offer up. Shiit, go into a Yahoo chat-room sometime, try a RAP chat, a HEAVY METAL chat, a TRIVIA chat or even a RELIGION chat and chances are you will be greeted with barrages of cursing, foul language and name calling the likes of which people like Joel would have you believe only fly from the mouths of "crabs in a barrell", "black on black self hating", "urban", "rap influenced" web designers here on UE.
I mean come on! I live across the street from a urban Junior High School with a cross cultural student body... the type of kids UBO and other Urban sites are supposedly marketed to. If you came spittin' the type of crap you're talking to them they'd curse you out sideways in a manner that'd make your toupee spin around!
I guess sometimes corporate ignorance can be bliss... but don't come popping your pie in the sky to people who you not only have no knowledge of but who will never benefit from the name brand sponsored urban utopia you've designed. Unlike the last commentator I DO believe that deception is a foot and that we'd be better of without the real world and on-line FUBU's that keep popping up. |
Or in other words...
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The Conscience of a Hacker
Another one got caught today, it's all over the papers. "Teenager Arrested in Computer Crime Scandal", "Hacker Arrested after Bank Tampering" Damn kids. They're all alike. But did you, in your three-piece psychology and 1950's technobrain, ever take a look behind the eyes of the hacker? Did you ever wonder what made him tick, what forces shaped him, what may have molded him?
I am a hacker, enter my world... I found a computer. Wait a second, this is cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me... Or feels threatened by me... Or thinks I'm a smart ass... Or doesn't like teaching and shouldn't be here... Damn kid. All he does is play games. They're all alike.
And then it happened... a door opened to a world... rushing through the phone line like heroin through an addict's veins, an electronic pulse is sent out, a refuge from the day-to-day incompetencies is sought... a board is found. "This is it... this is where I belong..." I know everyone here... even if I've never met them, never talked to them, may never hear from them again... I know you all... Damn kid. Tying up the phone line again. They're all alike...
You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us willing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert.
This is our world now... the world of the electron and the switch, the beauty of the baud. We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals. We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals.
Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.
I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike.
- The Mentor
- Written on Janurary 8, 1986
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Sure, not all of it applies, but some part of me thinks we should all make this the "Urban Web-Designer Manifesto" so we don't get confused about what is and isn't urban.
No more confusion, no more deception.
While others sample, I keep the full version breaks in my crate.
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I'm just gonna add a little late-into-the-game comment that's probly of no interest to anyone. I'm a read of the Wall Street Journal, and what I've noticed lately is simply that the "internet bubble burst." That's what you've all been hearing for 5 months, but it's the better part of what's going on with so many sites going south on us.
I figured, as a black femme with eons of experience getting MY black ass told off big time on BBSes in the early 90's just cause I was black and not afraid to own up to it or an opinion that the net would get better by degrees.
I can't see it, but I can say this much: even if UE IS a barrel of crabs, even if you regular posters are flaming the living **it out of each other, it can't be as bad as what we endured in the last decade.
I had 3 bullet holes in my windshield, 3 ruined tires, a busted out back door glass, and an arson and death threat to show for MY public posted opinion here in Ichita, Kansas.
So regardless of what the heck happened to UBO, and I missed it ALL...this forum is STILL better than the BBSes of old.
And...the white guys with all the venture capital money are different than they used to be.
I'm so old, I remember when Venture Capitalists EXPECTED to lose money, not INSIST on a fast show of profit.
Even the IRS doesn't insist on a profit inside of 3 years (out of every 5).
Why do the VCs today expect a return in a matter of months?
N Johnson
NostalgiCorp
Wichita, Ks |
Positive Vibrations:
A Beautiful Brother with Style:
BYRON LARS
@ The Showroom
231 West 39th Street
between 7th & 8th Avenues
Sweet 924
November 28 - December 4, 2000
Breath
Balance
Beauty
Byron!
Peaceful Journey ...
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has anyone seen David Watkins and his side kick Chris "Sucker" Sabin? |
The truth of the matter is the Internet, like all things, has become a commodity to sell and buy. We ,Black and Brown folk are notorious for comsuming conspicuously. You think that sellers Black/White/Brown are not going totake advantage of that. Sometimes, I feel that earnest desperate desire for representation and a voice--the wackness factor does not even come up. I take a look at Joel's email and while I certainly do not want to be gleefull in anyone's downfall, how can you blame a 6 monthold company for UBO's failure. One of my problems with UBO was it's lack of grassroots components. You can have all the Nia Long's ( i love Nia) you want, but you need to do substantive outreach to your "urban market". There are two distinct insights some of these "urban" sites lack. 1 They think we are friggin idiots. 2. It seems no one believes we deserve coherent and relevant news about the world affecting Black, Brown and other oppressed people. Like others on the postings have said, more and more I turn to altenative markets. I have been viewing SOHH, The Onion for a minute bc they are much more intelligent and open to dialogue. |
I'm feeling ya, Mr. Sinister! I cut my teeth on a Wang OIS.
I'm just realizing the "urban" demographic, as it applies to the
Web. I'm sorry that I missed it, but at least I caught a glimpse of
the UBO site before it was taken down by their ISP, having not paid
for subscription and all. I must say it's...different. Maybe if I
had some night vision glasses, I could actually read it. When I
pulled in up in the library yesterday, the colors came up purple on
black. Like a funeral scrim.
Amen, Steve and Dale. Good points, Cabal, daBaggage, Ed, Shaan
(eChastising -- get up!) and Tokachu. How did people get away with
this kind of money laundering? Something tells me that the drama
isn't over, once the IRS gets a hold of their files. It'll cost less
than $1,000 a week worth of my own elbow grease to run my site, so
where did the money go? I don't feel sorry at all for the very
sheltered Hamptons suckers who invested on in UBO and such on the
basis of nepotism w/o a business plan. I got one! Show ME the money!
It's not like you can't afford to learn how to put one together.
Every borough of NYC has a FREE small business course. For all of
your love for George Jackson, did he leave one behind? Did you ever
talk, uh, strategy, in any of your late-night "business meetings?"
("happily married?" To what, a brick? How can any woman with any
amount of self-respect...) When you guys killed your beloved mentor
from the stress and the strain, that should have been prophecy for
you fat (not phat!) cats! Of your business, just like your polluted
bodies, CLEAN OUT YOUR SYSTEM OF THE SHIT BEFORE IT DESTROYS YOU.
The same goes on in theater: National Black Theater begging another
company's audience for money (again!) while they pass around the
plates of free sweet potato chips at $5 a bag, tempura and
champange. Yeah, they're fat and broke, too! I wonder why.
Your stereotyping of the market that you so want to tap into reflects
the same kind of generation-gap segregation that's been going on in
the "black communitity" for too damn long, and I'm sick of it. A lot
of you really need to get out of the way and take a sabbatical,
you're holding up traffic!
Dick Wigglesworth (oh, my God, your name!) and Joel, if you can't
stand the heat, don't play the Devil, Fool! Next time, should you be
so lucky (I mean, what the Hell are you going to do now?), come
correct, as we "urban" types say in the 'hood.
I LOVE SITE!!! (Not to mention all of the wonderful masculine minds
and fureal sistas out here!)
www.geocities.com/viciward |
The following is an interpolation from the "10 Crack Commandments" by the Notorious B.I.G. keep that beat in your head as you read:
10 DOTCOM COMMANDMENTS
I been in this game for years
It made me a animal
There's rules to this shit, I wrote me a manual
A step by step booklet, for you to get
Your game on track, not your dot com pushed back
Rule number one, always play this game for fun
Watching the Matrix while programmin cold fusion dont make you The One
Cashing a big check don’t mean that you catchin wreck
Listen to what the Wu said and just protect ya neck
Number 2, never let 'em know your next move
Don't you know bad boys move in silence with silence
Take it from your highness, uh huh
I performed mad Jedi mindtricks on these "urban" cats, for they ram and chips
Number 3, never trust nobody
Your CEO set that ass up, properly gassed up
Hoodied and masked up, for that fast buck
he be layin in the conference room to light that ass up
Friends and co-workers have things they afraid face to face to say,
Uploaded next day on Urban Expose
Number four, know you heard this before
Dont believe the hype, of your own MS Word type
Number five, always know the terms of the deal
A signed piece of paper aint worth $20 mil, trying to keep it real
Nino Brown ran the Carter so Phuck that ex-Navy seal
Urban is defined as pertaining to the characteristic of the city
Trying to control it and not know it ,makes it a pity
Level playing field , come with what whatever you got
You cant define us with them 3 W's or that muthaphucking dot
Number six, never ever fall for tricks
I know plenty websites with the same free javascripts,
SVP’s/Web Producers all cocky and bold, never taught but always told
need to back their shit up with the basic knowledge of HTML code
Seven, this rule is so underated
Keep your fly women and business completely separated
Money and sex don't fit , like two male serial cables, and no interconnect bitch
Find yourself in serious shit
Number eight, never keep no ones New Jack dream alive for except for you
Them british cats that wish they were blak can hold nightmares true
Its a "Thin Line Between Love and Hate" to wait
4 days to announce the companys bankruptcy fate
Number nine should've been number one to me
If you ain't with due diligence, stay the fuck from VC's
If niggas think you slippin, they ain't tryna listen
youll be settin up for hiring
They Waitin to start firing
Number ten, a term called “set new trends”
Strictly for live sites, not for wacksites
If you ain't got the next shit vision, say hell no
Cause investors gonna' want they money , rain, sleet, hail, snow
Follow these rules, you'll have mad bread to break up
If not,no IPO on the wake-up
Empty box office, watch your frames shake up
Brown Eyed Intelligence with code and rap
Back my mindspray up on Operation: FILETAP
Was down with UBO from the start until it fell,
But im ok cause I can still think and link my thoughts up in html
Gotta go, gotta go, more files to hack up
Peace
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, Ten
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The article, to me, shows that this
man needs to stop hanging out with
Stanley Crouch. This site is a much
needed wakeup call to some of those brothers and sisters who
wish to remain stagnant in their
respective fields. All you guys are
doing is pulling someone's card. The
claim that this is feeding into how
whites see us is absurd and shows
how he's playing both sides of the
fence. the council of foreign relations mention that he refers to
says this: either you're there to
save your own hide or you're there
to report on whatever we're doing.
I'm sick and tired of certain "elder
statesmen" declaring something
wrong and totally negative because
they may disagree with certain
statements. Wake up, man. We're
not a mass of blind individuals
following the sounds of appeasement. Leave those damn
Bamboozled references alone if
you cannot apply them in the
proper context. |
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