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Monday, July 10 01:20 PM |
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Miller Publishing Tries Iron Pyrite Ploy To Attract Buyers For SPIN/VIBE Ventures.
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Miller publishing has been trying to dump SPIN/VIBE ventures since last year. They were asking for over $200 million for the three magazines (SPIN/VIBE/BLAZE). There of course were no takers. The 3 ailing magazines with no soul, no direction, and a dwindling market share leaves potential buyers cool. The three magazines all suffered from the same management mistakes. One of the main reasons for the value loss lied in their lack of an Internet strategy. They lost their chance to capitalize from the online market space for their respective genres.
They plan on pumping $30 million to compete in an already crowded urban market. The Vibe site currently done by onradio.com is an improvement over past incarnations. They have somewhat active message board section whose confusing interface leaves people to posting the same message multiple times. 900 messages in total are really 300 messages posted thrice. The chat area is always active. The average chat count is about 20 people. Hope all that traffic doesn't crash the servers! If you want to see what happens when guys from Spin new media departments run VIBE's online site, just check out the Da Rockwilder game on vibe.com. Did they really approve that? Why did they put blush on method man's face? Did a developer in Idaho make that?
The blaze.com site is dead like the magazine, and now forwards her meager traffic to her big sister site vibe.com. Spin.com offers the most pathetic attempts to make things sound cool:
Audio streaming pop-up window called "CTRL-ALT-X" lets you listen to the same tunes you can find anywhere else.
Bulletin Boards named "DYI" and "Spin This!" (note the exclamation point to denote excitement.). Our personal favorite is Spin Sucks. Not because Spin sucks, but because no one cares enough to even POST in the Spin sucks area.
A link in community called "Going E-Postal". Does this link to go cool gen-x rage e-cards? Does it link to a cool game or e-commerce section? No. It's a text page of responses to reader's correspondence by various editors. We think the mailroom guy is funnier.
The site attempts to cover the pop world in the same anemic way that thousands of other site d, but worse. It features the same unimaginative "solutions" for making your site sticky. Branded E-mail, messages boards and empty chat rooms.
You do the math.
3 great domain names.
2 lame sites.
1 new media department.
0 synergy.
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I thought Quincy Jones owned Vibe. What percentage of the mag does he actually own? |
Finally, i was waiting for THIS ONE....
VIBE sucks shit...always has...
Its never been good for anything
(unless you need more photos of ugly sneakers, LIL KIM tearing out her stank crotch or maybe a concise guide on "how to write like you're twelve even though you're not")
So when i read that Miller Publishing is scrambling to dump this piece of fermented shit...i cant say I'm too surprised.
I mean really, when you consider the kind of money that these people have, and the resources at their disposal, its kind of hard not to get a little dizzy at the prospect that although there are so many creative people around, there are very few people in the industry that know them....and those that DO know them, aren't crazy enough to HIRE them because they know damn well that people will expect their standard to be at least as high as the talent they've "discovered."
Unfortunatly, nobody wants to hire someone who will make them look bad. So what do they do?
They leave this pack of talentless pinheads in charge to compose a mountain of incipid crap every month...which they then squeeze in-between 200-plus pages of glossy advertising fuckery that , evidently , is no longer even capable of holding the limited attention of its traditional mouthbreathing supporters (ie: people who say things like "hip-hop community" and borderline retards who like to feel the smooth pages)
As for BLAZE, well, all i can say is they have an appropriate name...their magazine makes for good kindling.
My only question is, why hasnt anyone hacked these sites to shreads yet ...surely there must be someone out there who could do us all a favour by relacing VIBE.COM's front page with a photo of quincy jones humping a poster of la toya jackson...yeah..i know thats crude...but even then , it would raise the quality of their content a notch or two.
afFLicted
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word is that Essence sold part of the business to Time to raise money so that they can possibly buy vibe/spin/blaze... not sure if they would make the sitaution any better, probably not. |
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I think the Vibe problems go much deeper than their website issues.
While Vibe started out as a 'black rolling stone' it wasn't long before there were letters to the editor complaining about there being too much white content and issues. It was at this point when the editors of Vibe described their fan base as being an "urban" mix of about "60%black/40%white."
Then many new magazine like Source and Spin cam and stole their whole black base and Vibe responded with the lame Blaze issue.
Vibe can function without a website. Their core problems are a lack of direction within the magazine staff. |
Did Vibe make any money last year? |
Vibe Magazine alone made 5-7 million. |
Len Burnett?
This cant be the same Len Burnett that has been running behind Keith since the days of Urban Profile or what ever that magazine was called? You made 5-7 million for VIBE and how much did you get? Is that why you left, Miller and Quincy wouldnt cut you in on all the money you made for them? I'm glad to see someone in the industy sue their real name. Its inspired me to do the same. You go Len!
Artisha Hlinge
art4short |
y'all do the math: here's a list of people (not even complete) of people who left vibe last year: sarah min, danyel smith, shani saxon (who came back), carter harris, miles marshall lewis, sacha jenkins, raqiyah mays, corey takahashi, minya oh, shaheem reid, andrew gillings . . . . this ain't even a complete list; all these motherfuckers could staff a whole entire other magazine!! what the fuck is going on over there? the source rocks them anyway. vibe sucks 90% of the time. |
Miles got fired In a spectacular way). Minya got fired. Raqiyah couldn't get promoted. Shani hated Teen People and came back. It seems like the only reason to stay is because you can't find a better job (or you got fired). |
Check out this news bit from Slashdot.org:
TheLocustNMI writes "This is an interesting article at BusinessWeek about eWatch, a company that specializes in tracking the comments of, and garnering personal information about folks with a beef with a company. The service isn't cheap, upwards of $5,000 per "screenname". This was apparently used against Northwest Airlines sick-out employees last Christmas. The BusinessWeek article seems to hint that eWatch is used primarily to root out uncomplimentary messages on "rouge" web sites. So, should we be careful about what we post here, Usenet, or anywhere else? Especially if we post about our own companies? Interesting indeed..."
What if someone at one of these urban companies poneis up the 5 grand to try and get this site closed down. Anyone wanna comment?
Artisha
art4short |
Well we all know the editorial content of the offline publication has gone to hell, Under Danyel (but really upper management) it sprouted feathers, and under Emil well, it now has feathers and a pink and purple neckerchief.
Now since the online venture gets it's cues from the print edition for it's content, things are not looking good for VIBE or VIBE online. Why would anyone put 30 million into a lost battle? When they should have been worried about the juggernot that they could have had in the internet's urban space, they were too concerned about getting that HORRIBLE tv show Vibe off the ground.
That show was a practice in what to do when you don't want to suceed in television. They had guests on the show that have NEVER been in the magazine or fit the target market of viewers that the VIBE brand pulls, the worst is that show when they had that Baywatch bimbette talking for twenty minutes about her boobs and her dumb ass dogs, the night when Lela and Maxwell were on and then they rushed them off after a two minute interview. Then the night they had Melissa Gilbert and her old ass husband on? Oh yeah like they do in depth pieces on Little Laura from Little House on the Prarie all the time.
Again, What the Fuck? Then when it got so horrible that they had to fire the first fool Chris Spencer, they got Sinbad?, Yeah all us people in the urban set love Sinbad, he's like how old? VIBE has been missing the mark for a LONG time. Fires and Hires people breaking out over the stupidest shit.
I can't see where the web content will be any different. |
Yeah
Fuck BLAZE do you all hear me...
LEt me tell you about an organization that never ever sent my magazine on time and then My stupid ass in an effort to support a hip hop publication decided to go ahead a get another year's subscription. They never sent me a bill and tried to put me in collections over 11.95 so I promptly paid and waited for my second year of subscription--which never came b/c the rag piece of shit folded!!!!
So I'm not surprised that the whole venture is sinking...
Vibe On line is Edited by a good friend of mine, who truly loves the genre of hip hop and I guess is heart and emphasis will always be there, but at least they have some semblance of content and I can appreciate that, but Blaze can kiss my ass.
sorry for venting like that but if the boot fits, I'm gonna shove it way up yo ass!!!
gannsberg |
Gannsberg is Kenji Jasper. |
MONICA: Did you know that
MELISSA GILBERT was once stoned unconscious by a pack of drought-affected wild monkeys in South America who wanted her bottle of mineral water?
wonder why she never mentioned that on VIBE TV?
anybody know?
afFLicted
p.s wasn't that a good episode of LITTLE HOUSE when Mary starts screaming :"I'm BLIND PA!!!! I'm BLIIIIIIND!"
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oh yeah, and add bonz malone to that list from earlier; he was banned from their offices in a spectacular way for coloring vibe in an unfavorable light in new york magazine. |
kenya byrd ain't there anymore either, not to mention len burnett, keith clinkscales, et al. mad people vacated. |
This is a little off the topic, but being that Vangarde was mentioned here, I was wondering if anyone had any knowledge of the Vangarde projects allegedly in development. Also, I'm not sure who's behind that company and what titles come under that umbrella. If you've got the time to spare the info, thanks in advance.
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Hey everyone:
I just want to say I'll be leaving S.O.H.H. and going back to work with VIBE and my old friends from Blaze. I will be taking Minya's spot and leaving this fake hip hop rap site and UBO.
Send all your free records to me at Vibe.
Hyun |
And Bonz Malone is a has been sell out. |
Oh snap, Len Burnett's up in this piece naming facts and figgas! Aiight! And people wonder why we read this site... |
Congrats Hyun,
How did you manage to work with that crazed Marshall "Adam Matthews" Mathers schizo for so long? Vibe needs you. SOHH is a joke. |
Sooo
Crispus surfaces again, this time in an interview with a nameless reporter for Impact247/Vanguarde media.
Maybe its just me, but this comment in particular bothers me: (excerpted from the interview)
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"Impact247- When do you plan to unveil yourself?
Crispus- I think at this point the anonymous factor helps add mystique about the site. Our writers can focus on candid, poignant pieces without worrying about people attacking the foundation of what was said by attacking their character. Our writers are successful enough not to be worried about bylines. Our purpose is nowhere near to hurt anyone and we don’t have stories from disgruntled employees"
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Anonymity protects the UE writers from recrimination. It also, however hides them from the same scrutiny they turn on their subjects. In fact Crispus seems to suggest that part of the UE credibility lies in our inability to impugn the character or their writers.
We cannot question their past nor ridicule any public statements they have made. We cannot expose contradiction and hypocrisy in the UE writers’ lives because we have no idea who they are. Human as they are, they are not above reproach, and yet the authors on this site have placed themselves beyond substantive criticism with their anonymity. Perhaps they believe they are without fault.
Whether or not this is true, UE writers will never be forced to take responsibility for words that cannot be attributed to them. Likewise, without clearly identifying himself or herself as the publisher, person behind UE will never have to reckon with the impact of the UE’s content.
The value of a free and open press to a healthy society not only the protection it gives the reporter to speak without fear. It also strips the writer of any excuse to hide while taking cheap and easy shots.
Should the authors reveal themselves? I don’t know, but their anonymity does seem unfair, give extent to which individuals are singled out and castigated in UE articles.
The corollary to this of course is: who said life was fair. And yes, I write all of this while hiding behind my own pseudonym.
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No selassie, your a joke.... |
What I want to know is whoever told Mimi Valdes, she had fashion sense? Emil ? Not saying she's not a nice person. And come on guys a magazine named Homegirl . |
To Neil at Vibe,
VANGUARDE MEDIA owns the following domain names. Don't know how many work:
S1W.NET
THEURBANDEPOT.NET
360CODE.ORG
HONEYBRIDE.NET
E360CODE.COM
IMPACTPOWER.ORG
IMPACT411.NET
THEURBANEXCHANGE.NET
IMPACTPOWER.NET
IMPACT411.ORG
IMPACTPOWER.COM
360CODE.COM
360CODECENTRAL.COM
THEURBANEXCHANGE.ORG
HONEYBRIDE.COM
IMPACT411.COM
360CODEONLINE.COM
360CODE.NET
THEURBANDEPOT.COM
HONEYBRIDE.ORG
THEURBANDEPOT.ORG
THEURBANEXCHANGE.COM
ASONDRA.COM
URBANINTERNETSMACKDOWN.COM |
Speaking of domain names and ownership. Does anyone realize that Master P and No Limit Enterprises own over 1000 domain names? Including www.newyork.com?
Smart move....
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me know that dere is not jesse washingtun, de bottybwoy who got de gun put in his face by my main man wyclef, seen? who got his pussyras face beat by madd rapper. dat jesse washington a bumbaclot pussy face who think his book gon run t'ings, seen? but jesse bumbaclod washington got fired from blaze for im bein' pussyboy, seen?
no respect to rasclod jesse washington. |
me hear that adam matthews white bumbaclod suck fat rasclod steve's dick from sohh, eh? |
me tink dem people at vibe all bottybwoys and rasclods, seen? dem all queer at vibe and bring more into dem company, seen? vibe no run tings no more. Me say boom bye bye to vibe dem wackest of all magazine! BOOM BYE BYE Emil and vibe faggyras! |
I think it's sad that everyone is shocked that Len Burnett used his real name on this site. Many of you are pussies who will only talk shit if no one know who you are (crispus) If you've got an opinion about something, have the balls to say what you mean without hiding behind an alias. Otherwise your opinion is really just backstabbing gossip. Too many of you either have forgotten the rules of the playground or never had the opportunity to learn the rules. If you talk shit about somebody behind their back, you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences I don't even know Len but at least he got balls unkike a lot of you other punks. Enough of that rant.
Any magazine takes on the personality of its editor. The problem with Vibe is that the editors they've had over the years are very different people. Because of this the magazine has no consistency. Each editor changes things to fit their own lifestyle. Therefore there is no Vibe lifestyle to identify with. Essence had Susan Taylor for 20yrs, Ebony has Lerone Bennett Jr, Vanity Fair has Graydon Carter, etc. These magazines and their editors are closely identified because the editors live the lifestyle the magazine conveys. Danyel had a downtown/Brooklyn/homegirl energy and Emil has a gay, fashion driven energy. Maybe if Emil stays at Vibe for awhile we'll know what to expect every month. Simply put, Vibe needs consistency. |
REGGAESTAR: when people yell you that you write like you speak..do you take it as a compliment? if so...why?
second question...are YOU a Rastafarian, a Jamaican or just someone who drives a $2000 car with $7000 worth of tacky accessories stuck onto it ?
Care to explain? please try to use a real sentence for those of us who are still oppressed by the 'man's' vocabulary "shitstem."
thanks..afFLicted
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afflicted
you a pussyclot fag bottbwoy. you nah haf as smart as you think, seen? you queer like dem at vibe, and tink every ting irie. but me nuh go for dat, bottyface! eat ox dick, fake faggot bwoy from jamaica! |
Jamaica Queens that is. . . you nuh bad bwoy from kingston. you whitey from new york with 'whack' hip hop site and 'afflicted' with AIDS from bending over to let emil and dem bumbaclods from vibe give it to you like the bitch you are. |
nuff said, seen? cease and seccle |
REGGAESTAR: i knew you couldnt be a jamaican LIVING in jamaica...your patois is embarrassing...i know taxi drivers in NYC who can wing it better than you...you never answered any of my questions though...
you don't have your grade 5 do you?
lemme know...lol
afFLicted |
vibe/spin co-president anne welch just jumped ship for a dotcom completely unrelated to entertainment. |
to ms. alston, i do not doubt that No Limit owns quite a bit of good domains, but unless he just purchased it, Network Solutions database says it belongs to some guy in DC Melvin Hardy (one of your clients perhaps?). i will give it to you though, that was a valiant effort to funnel some traffic to a site about New York, run by some people in based in DC...Smart move... |
i am not sure if many of you realize this, but i do not believe that vibe is hurting for a dollar. their revenues are up 23% over 1998 with a total gross revenue of $65 million for 1999. if there is a problem it seems like a very good one. kd |
Jeffrey Sledge,
Good point. It's time for everyone who posts to step up. We spend too much time trying to bring each other down as opposed to helping people up. If you have a criticism, beef, insight or whatever, step up. |
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Jeff, Isidro..
...not everyone who posts semi anonymously is hiding or bringing negative shti to this discussion board.
I figure anynoe of us can filter thru the bs rants and pointless drama filled critisisms.......relevent convo and discussion can be found and maintained.
Vibe IMO is a good magazine...it does what is supposed to do, attracts readers, advertisers, sells products, and promotes.
Its easy for many to critisize, but peeps who arent in the publishing biz cant seem to understand what its like to run a magazine and apeal to a wide "urban" audience...and we all know the "urban" audience is constsantly changing and evolving.....
Many people have "stepped up" and decided to create a magazine they feel caters to their needs, and experince firsthand how difficult it is to do.
I dislke Ebony.....I personally think its was wack.
I feel it does not represent me the way I live life to a certain degree...I mean, i really dont care to see the inside of Micheal Jacksons 40 million dollor home, or check out the 100 top eligible bacherlorettes...but there is an audience that does-and it shows--Ebony has been around for a long time, and probably aint going anywhere...therfore I read what does interest me, discard the rest and look to other magazines that may be closer to my lifestyle.
..again...Vibe caters to fickle audience...a "urban" audience.
A audience who can change from one minute to the next and everybody aint gonna be happy or satisfied, but I agree..a consistant editor that understands the diversity of the "urban" peeps who read VIBE, can strenghthen the weak spots.
ohsokool@hotmail.com |
I want you all to know that I resent this story about my magazine VIBE and what I'm trying to do with it. I also resent the implication that I am a practicing homosexual. I am about as gay as Scott Poulson Bryant. I am trying to keep VIBE afloat, and if it weren't for me, the magazine would have gone down the tubes like Blaze long ago. In fact, my charity extends to the fact that I have rehired people from Blaze and allowed them to come to my magazine VIBE. Of course there have been personality conflicts but they all understand that I am the king of VIBE and what I say is what it goes. My VIBE is actually the most profitable, and anyone who does not like it, should get a subscription quickly because they are speaking out of ignorance and completely unaware about the style and fashion and sophistication that I am bringing to the magazine industry. Uncouth gutter rats can go read The Source or XXL for all I care. Vibe is the best. |
As for Hyun Kim being rehired, that is still to be determined. I personally felt his writing was a bit juvenile, repetitive and quite hackneyed. At my version of VIBE, I prefer to conduct business with non threatening unknowns who will work for cheaper rates, not give any backtalk and simply construct the stories I feel accurately reflect my vision of urban culture and fashion. VIBE will no longer deal with contentious individuals such as Miles Marshall Lewis, Minya Oh, Rob Marriott, Kevin Powell, Kris Ex, nor Bonz Malone (who will remain banned from our offices)especially in light of revelations regarding his lack of professional conduct while interviewing celebrities). |
I am quite upset with everyone insulting my magazine. I thought our latest Busta Rhymes cover story was really hard hitting. It told us all how Busta can appeal to both whites and blacks. But about these posts on this hideous site: I will be hiring a private detective to find each and every one of you so that when you come to VIBE seeking freelance work, you will find yourself banned and disgraced and left without our generous rate of fifty cents a word. Do not post about VIBE any more or my detectives will find you. |
the greatest selling hip-hop album (solo artist) is hammer's "please hammer don't hurt 'em."
vibe selling doesn't say anything about the quality of the mag. compared to vibe's 700,000 circulation, ebony does well over a million, and we all know ebony is shit.
vibe is still a shadow of the mag it once was. it doesn't generate the excitement it had years ago. if the mag were dope, 30 staffers wouldn't have exited in the past 12 months. it began it's decline with the launch of VibeTV and blaze--both failed ventures; and now they're trying to launch Homegirl to battle honey magazine. they should just concentrate on vibe, 'cause it's been slipping for years.
despite however much money vibe makes, they're getting their ass kicked in ads by the source. if they're making so much dough, imagine what the source is making! (not to jock the source; they have their own problems too) |
ohsokool
Why should I have to search through peoples rants to find out if someone has something interesting to say? Who's got time for that?
Again, if you're going to put out negative energy at least you can sign your name to it.
I didn't criticize Vibe. I just said that there needs to be a consistent direction.
p.s. there are a lot of people that are scared to get on this site for fear of persecution. That's sad.
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Just a lurker with a few questions:
Since we are talking about magazines:
1) What happened to Honey? Started off lovely and now is basically a Glamour for "black" girls who dont know how to put on make-up or catch a man..
2) What happened to Code?
How did Eugene Robinson go from being the sex columnist to editor in less than a year? Oh, and btw Omar Wasow (sp?) is featured in there and looks NOTHING like MG..so i dont see a incognito Crispus Attucks happening there...
However...i have an idea about who is behind this...any of you remember CLN ( Cafe Los Negroes ) Mr Greaves first born? He had a bunch of help creating an maintaining that site and rumour has it he screwed all his friends when all was said and done...and some of them went on to help create UBO...but i have a hunch that maybe they arent there anymore...and given the fact that they are highly creative, intellectual folks its feasible that they came up with something like this here lil spot .... jmho |
ohsokool: yeah yeah...VIBE sells plenty of space to advertisers and attracts an "urban audience"(whatever that is)..but you know something...? if i was the person who was responsible for taking all that money, i think i would actiually have to TRY to make a magzine that crappy.
okay fine..so they have enough copies of that big glossy shitrag in circulation to keep Calvin Klein and Nike happy...but if that's all they wanted to accomplish...why go around calling it a MAGAZINE ...?
Why not call it a CATALOGUE?
Yes, i like that...the VIBE catalogue.
Thats what it is isn't it ?(although the SEARS version is FREE, has better 'writing' and seven or eight pages with nothing but pictures of BRA'S).
As for EBONY...well, they're really more of a a service than a magazine aren't they?
If your children ever start acting up while you're waiting to get their hair cut in a barbershop ; you can just grab one, roll it up and slap the shit out of them with it.
afFLicted |
p.s. Why y'all shitting on Ebony? Like it or not Ebony is a part of Black American culture. It's part of all of us. Everyone of us has been at our Aunt's house, Grandmother's house, in the barbershop, or the hair salon and has read about someone losing 100lbs, some puff piece on a celebrity, and the 100 most influential negroes. Stop frontin'! |
who's shitting on ebony? didnt i say its good to beat unruly children with? |
Okay. At this point, I'd imagine it's most valuable to steer this discussion away from the negative and toward the positive. If everyone is dissatisfied with Vibe, Ebony, Essence, Honey et al. for assorted reasons, what is it that people want out of a magazine? What would you ask from your urban (god forbid, black) lifestyle, music, art, culture journals? Some of the responses should be obvious, but I'd like to hear them anyway. |
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Jeff..
I agree with your comments on VIBE needing consistant direction..
Like VIBE, Ebony, this very site- and life in general--you know how sumtimes you have to sift thru the BS to get to the good stuff worth having.....You, like me obviously have a few moments here and there, to read whats posted here, and its clear when somone starts rating about how "wack" sumthin is, its probably not in your interest to continue reading it....so i just keep scrolling..
I think after a while, this place can (and it does) offer constuctive critisisn of new media/entertainment and traditional media/entertainment (print, record companies) and possibly some real networking opps..
Hamlet:
Like Vibe, your not the same person you were years ago---obviously older,and you intrests are probably slightly differnt to a degree, while VIBE still attempts to cater to the same target audience age group & audience as it did when it first started.
You *might* even be falling out of Vibe's target audince which is why you may think it fell off...
For every one of us that dislikes or shits on Ebony or Vibe, there are probably 100 more people that enjoy those magazines, and feels it caters and represents their lifestyles....
I dont like Ebony, but Im not exactly frontin on it...I read it, browse thru it on occasion but its not where my head is at.
Its a lil too mainstream for me...just my personal tastes.
afflicted:
yeah..once a magazine publication becomes THAT large and established, its nothing but ad space with a few articles thrown in for distraction.....kinda like BET, or large record company who knows its position, and plays it well.
Feeed the masses bullshit, and they seem to keep coming back for seconds and thirds............and i think essentially thats why this site exists (and many others like it), so that we involved in these industries can constructivly discuss and point out the flaws.
Making money and entertaining for mainstream (and not a select few) is basically what it all boils down to....make that money...
*blingbling*
sad, but true.
hey..i just create that balance of what I intake , and put everyting in its proper perspective as it applies to me.....whatever dosent get digested goes in the toilet.
Mr.BlingBling aka ohsokool@hotmail.com |
JADEI,
What happened to Honey is that they got purchased from Harris by Vanguarde Media. The original editors broke out and then the magazine got real ghetto, real fast. It's a shame too because Honey in it's original incarnation had more wit and style targeting the young Essence type woman, that didn't have the kids, the house, the husband, and the mutual funds.
The first Honey wasn't perfect, layout problems, some corny features but they did a good pieces on the upcoming black female professional, slicker clothing and style, books, and showed the that there are some females, that aren't singing, hoe-ing, or glorifying the typical fuck your way to the top chicks that invade any thing that's black in media.
Now the new Honey, the ghetto, hoot rat fabulous review comes complete with 5411's, and standing on the bus stop sucking on a lolipop type of shit. (NOTE: Vanguarde Media, every black hair magazine has already beat you to this format.) It's a breast, a leg, a wing and a thigh on every page.
CODE never really picked up steam even though the style is still good, the editorial is kind of weak. |
Suggestion:
The so-called "urban" publications, whether print or online,
need to worry less about trying to be the number 1, end-all be-all of
urban experience, and try to focus more.
Vibe attempts cater to so many different aspects of the
so-called "urban" audience, that it fails to really serve
well to any single one.
Dr. Thulsa Doom
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This just in.....
Peter Dean Ricketts is behind this site.
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Well, Neil, since you asked what VIBE can do better, I'd say lose the same old rotten writers, and the younger inexperienced hacks who write their articles by formula. Vibe's formula is tired, and so as many of the same people being allowed to run it. Jeanine Amber has had a while to make things better but she's done nothing but show she's a pale imitation of the Village Voice's worst writers. The other editor, Tera, is just as boring. These people are not connected with the street in any way, and have an elitist approach to coverage that simply won't compete with other magazines. With them, every article reads the same: "I'm in a restaurant with this star and they're so fabulous." Give me a break. And Neil, you're no one to talk. I read your "work" at Blaze. You should not be at VIBE. You're simply not good enough. But since you are friends with the people at Blaze, you have a job. So, you have answered your own question. What's wrong with Vibe? People like you having jobs up there. Does this help? what boring reviews will you bring us next month (which are strictly middle of the road and don't ever tell us the truth)? |
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Dr. Thulsa Doom ..
the "urban" ( a word im starting to despise ) experience is so diverse, it kind of hard to cater and focus on one aspect, especially when that word and what it represents changes like the seasons........besides...everyone had a different interpetation of what "urban" is..
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Neil, Vibe also stinks because you have the same bunch of people giving jobs to the same jerks and hacks. How many times are we going to read articles by Kris Ex? didn't someone write that Kris vomited in DMX's Jeep because he was so drunk? Is that professional? I think not. But why are hacks like Ex, and others, allowed to continue to work with Vibe? Because people like you are their friends, and really don't think about the reader at all. So spare me your little 'Yes I care' routine. You're only there for the money. And not even earning it. |
Well of course all of the urban mags and sites are weak. Most of contemporary hip-hop is weak, stuck in time, no imagination dog dinner. How much repetitive, airheaded braggadoccio and spring break azz-backin' are we supposed to take? With the ongoing stagnation of hip-hop, at least one thing has become abundantly clear: endlessly bragging about money and status in any culture is as no-class as summer vacation. |
And Neil, for your boss Emil to write the stuff that he did, to start saying he'll get detectives to find out who did this, is pathetic. Tell him to focus on firing more of the hacks who have helped take Vibe right down the toilet since Clinkscales left. And to stop trying to play big willy in the photo section while standing near white executives, aight? |
NOTICE: the past several posts attributed to "hamlet" are not mine. (note, my clout is 10; the clout on those posts is 4). |
Actually, they are mine. Why should I be afraid to speak my opinion? I don't care what anyone thinks. I'm simply telling the truth. Please don't be upset with me. But the truth hurts. |
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All of these publications came into existance, because there was an audience for them......a void that need to be filled..
I remember reading SPIN back in HS, because they would have 1 or 2 articles on HipHop, Go-Go and House written by this guy Frank Owen, and I coulndnt get any other articles about my lifestyle other than from Right On, and Word Up.
VIBE, The Source and others saw that, and seized the moment.
.....if there is no demand, these magazines will cease...so they are obviously doin sumthin right cause they are still around.
XXL started because a bunch of people were fed up with The Source & VIBE...and new magazines will continue to pop up until one of them breaks the mold and sets a new "standard" in "urban"
( ugghhh that word again..) publications/media. |
ohsokool,
I definitely agree with you on the growing
despicableness of the term "urban."
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damn nei, no love in DC, no love in NYC, what's going on man? |
good god, anyone who can't see those "emil" posts as satire is a total brain donor. get a clue. |
hamlet, just for the record the source was below vibe by about $22 million in gross revenue in 1999. interesting comments though, unfortunately, they are not accurate pertaining to revenue.
kd
nvmagazine |
What are some examples of good "urban"
publications?
Or at least what do we here like? |
gross revenue but what about profit, kyle donovan |
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Well, i realize one magazine cant give everyone everything..
...which is why I read a diverse selection of publications from Stress, VIBE, The Source, Wired, Industry Standard, F.E.D.S. Business 2.o, Black Enterprise, and Jet of course, for The Beauty Of The Week... |
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Can you still purchase shares of NV?... |
again, those asinine comments weren't mine.
i wouldn't shit on neil drumming. hip-hop journos go in waves, i.e. nelson george, greg tate & lisa jones; bonz malone & ronin ro; toure, kris ex & miles marshall lewis; now hyun kim, aliya s. king & datwon thomas. the only good thing to come out of wack blaze was that it at least gave a forum for new writers to get on. neil drumming, dave crowley, etc. should have a chance to show & prove.
also, jeannine does a fine job at what she does for vibe. tiarra is competent enough, but has no clout as a writer or editor. but she's fabulous and non-threatening enough for emil. |
To All: No Limit does not own www.newyork.com or over 1000 domains. I wish we could just get the facts that why I LOVE UE-urbanexpose'.com |
also, to kyle donovon, that's a good point. wasn't aware of that. still, the source beats vibe in newstand circulation, and if vibe wins with subscriptions, they're taking an L because those readers are paying less than half-price for the mags. |
Hey ...thought I forgot didn't you |
also, kris ex is not a hack. he might be gassed and two-faced--and he did vomit in DMX's ride--but he's a talent. |
Well, I was at Blaze for a couple of months before it folded, Hamlet, but only two of my pieces ran. There was a feature on Common and a review of the Ego Trip soundtrack. I'd like to know what about either of those pieces you disliked.
But my question really wasn't about me. It was more of a general one. Anyone who has problems with me personally, or my writing is welcome to call or email me.
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OK...Now a sister has to defend herself.
To Mr. Pratt
Leland Hardy of No Limit told me (in person) that they owned the site. Less than two weeks ago at the Grand Hyatt in Washington, DC.
They are not my clients nor do I have any business dealings with No Limit. But can you understand why they would not want anyone to know they owned the site?
And as for the 1000 domain names. If you check the Dec 99 Black Enterprise (you know the one with Puffy and Master P on the cover)
he states he owns over 1000 domain names.
By the way, does anyone know what happened to Bad Boy Technologies? Sylvia Coto was running it. |
Not to over-post, but this discussion seems to have some merit.
One of the many "hamlets" mentioned that hip-hop journalists seem to go in waves. Does anyone know why that is? Is it that they burn out quickly? Is it that their tastes can't possibly keep up with the rapidly changing industry? Or is it that they never really get the chance to develop as writers?
A friend of mine mentioned that one journal in particular burns through "hip-hop writers" like nothing. I think that, at this point, even labeling yourself as a "hip-hop journalist" is a pretty risky pigeonhole.
Another scary phenomenon is that, as a budding editor, I run across more and more writers who are ready to retire their critical voice entirely because they are intimidated by record labels and even artists.
Just some thoughts.
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Neil Drumming,
You mentioned that hiphop writers seem to disappear quickly and asked us to offer opinions on why this is. No disrespect intended but I hamlet seemed to answer that in his posts. Nepotism at hiphop magazines. Anyone else agree? disagree? |
Typo in earlier post:
My sentence should have read: "I think that hamlet etc."
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And Neil:
Again no disrespect but you should not be issuing challenges to people on this site. Judging from the posts I've seen on this, and other pages, there appear to be many lunatics abounding in this industry and you certainly would not want to invite them into Vibe's offices. Look what happened to Jesse Washington. |
Neil:
You also wrote:
"Another scary phenomenon is that, as a budding editor, I run across more and more writers who are ready to retire their critical voice entirely because they are intimidated by record labels and even artists. . ."
Where did you meet these writers? at Blaze and Vibe where writers routinely have their critical opinions deleted from pieces and substituted with logrolling praise and advocacy? Don't try to front like you're a real journalist and editor. Judging from your posts you're another wannabe tough guy trying to challenge and menace people and you're working for your buddies at Blaze (who are now all at Vibe). I'm sorry to say it but I agree with hamlet. You do not deserve your job.
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Sorry to write again but Neil Drumming you are full of shit. I re read your letters and see that you're trying to 'type' from a position of authority. i.e. "Okay. At this point, I'd imagine it's most valuable to steer this discussion away from the negative and toward the positive. "
Who are you to tell us all what to do? You're a hack who works for Vibe, the company that got dissed in this article and you want to tell us how to respond? That's why writers lose their "critical voice." Bozoes like you trying to control what people write (which you tried to do on this message board). Neil Drumming, you have officially played yourself. Go back to your desk and continue kissing Tera's ass and lying to yourself about Vibe meaning anything to anyone other than the other hacks and pretenders getting the Vibe paychecks. |
Othello:
What do you know about me that gives you the right to attempt to insult me? And why are you so angry? Have I unfairly edited something you've written? Have we ever met? Do you have any first hand experience with me whatsoever?
In fact, if you hate Vibe so much and believe that it is not a place worth working, how can you begrudge me my job?
There's nothing angry or menacing about anything I've posted--until now.
If you don't consider me a "real" journalist, that's fine, but I'd like to see some evidence that you've ever read anything I've ever written. I may be new to this business , but I'm proud of the work I've done and stand by every published piece--AND HAVE THE COURAGE TO USE MY REAL NAME. I don't care how you think I got my job, but read my work and tell me to my face I don't deserve it. You don't think the Vibe people know talent when they see it? Fuck it. Ask my editors at the Washington Post if I have anything worth printing.
As an editor, I am obviously new to this--as evidenced by my own use of the word "budding"--but don't dismiss my attempts to learn and do my job with integrity without even knowing me.
Your attempts at petty mudslinging tell me that you have no interest in a potentially beneficial public forum like this one other than your own juvenile entertainment. In short: fuck off, bitch-ass.
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Neil Drumming, don't attempt to obfuscate the issue by waving your 'white credentials' at me. You ain't shit and everybody know it, dunn. And there you go with all that tough guy shit, inviting people to come up to Vibe to start fights and trouble. You're endangering the lives of everyone you work with. Do your bosses know you're doling this? And about your real name? Your name don't mean shit around here, dunn. So keep stepping you wannabe Greg Tate! |
Neil, you stupid ass. You tried to make people forget that you played yourself and showed that you are part of the reason Vibe is so fucking wack these days. So to reiterate, and make it so simple even your stupid ass can understand:
"Sorry to write again but Neil Drumming you are full of shit. I re read your letters and see that you're trying to 'type' from a position of authority. i.e. "Okay. At this point, I'd imagine it's most valuable to steer this discussion away from the negative and toward the positive. "
Who are you to tell us all what to do? You're a hack who works for Vibe, the company that got dissed in this article and you want to tell us how to respond? That's why writers lose their "critical voice." Bozoes like you trying to control what people write (which you tried to do on this message board). Neil Drumming, you have officially played yourself. Go back to your desk and continue kissing Tera's ass and lying to yourself about Vibe meaning anything to anyone other than the other hacks and pretenders getting the Vibe paychecks."
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Who agrees that Neil Drumming embodies the spirit that is debilitating Vibe magazine? |
Hey Vibe, three words:
"dwindling market share."
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Neil, I am upset with Vibe, not you, because they fired my man Shaheim Reed for no reason, just to make room for people like Hyun Kim, who thinks wearing Fubu and having a bald head makes him "black." You are not the problem Neil but you have been made part of it. Shaheim was there for years, brother, and they just did him like that for no reason. Same thing they did to Bonz and Ghetto and a bunch of other talented Black writers. They fired them anbd brought in softies who write for mainstream white newspapers so that Vibe can continue peddling their watered down bullshit to their "dwindling market share." |
Alright, forget it.
If I'm at fault for anything, it's my easily-bruised ego and my rampant idealism.
I don't know a lot about the business I'm in other than how to tell a good story. I was hoping a site like this would be educational and good for communication. But curiously, like hip hop, the foundation this site was built on, it's grown ugly and pointless. I can't deal with the ridiculousnes. It's making me retaliatory and wasting my time. I'm out.
If anybody has anything worth talking about, email me.
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Damn, I hate being bullied, but this whole discussion is so frustrating. And it's a little too late to worry about showing my ass, heh. So, I might as well say what's on my mind.
Anyway, I just can't believe that because Othello is mad that his friend--a black man--lost his job, his response is to personally attack me--another black man. What good does that do?
I don't believe that because I've written for "white" magazines that it makes me a better writer. Shit, most of us have written for the same "white" magazines if we have managed to support ourselves.
And I'm sure that a lot of us will testify that those magazines give us a lot more freedom than some of the black magazines. Still. I don't know about the rest of you, but I jumped at the opportunity to work for Blaze and then Vibe, because I wanted to write for a predominantly black audience. (Yes, there was more money involved, but compare cost of living in New York to where I was and you'll find the raise negligible.)
Now, that I'm here, is the situation ideal? Of course not! No job ever is, but it's a job and you make the best out of it. So I started peeking at this site to learn more about the business. Shit, I don't want to control the conversation, I just want to be a part of it.
BLACK FOLKS: This mere existence of this site acknowledges that we have lots of new opportunities. All the rage and discontent on this site shows that we are in danger of wasting those opportunities. We're here. Can't we cut the crap and get on with the conversation? If not here, then let's move it somewhere else.
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Neil,
Posters who are openly trying to poke fun at you or your writing are to be expected, just the stripes of being a writer, some will like it some won't.
From what I see, and I will go as far and say there are a lot of posters on this board who are either
A. So pitfully scared about their own stupid, and shady moves being outed that they spend their days and nights picking fights under aliases to distract other posters from really dishing on the stories and fuckups they may have something to do with, thus hopefully to them, saving their asses from the embarassment they truly deserve for another day.
OR
B. Posting random shit or asking questions on the very projects that they are working on to find out what people know, willing to tell, and if their business is close to hitting the streets. Or in this case, the boards.
Then you have the idiots who just post stupid shit to get attention, even if it is under a fake name.
With anything, you gotta get through the crap to get to the substance. And there is substance here. I know I'm learning that their are way more people than I thought in the urban space who truly get it. And even if none of us can really meet openly together, we are in fact networking. Perhaps it's better this way, so people can say what they want without fear of retailation. Those who's names keep coming up, will be clearly identified as individuals who people need to take a closer look at. For all of us to win and take this to another level, we've got to get rid of the dead (and stupid) weight now.
P.S. KJ Bryce@ Arista, if you mean that you forgot about DW, I've been reading your interesting tibits and I know first hand those tibits are more than very true. It's long overdue that the spot gets blownup. And I think I have a match. You got the lighter fluid? Burn baby, burm. |
more observations;
The hype behind this site is creating a scary dynamic..
The rabid message board addicts ( ones with obscure screen names and no real company to speak of ) are mixed in with real live industry people...
and so the flame wars begin..dont be scared real industry people..the addicts get off on using foul language and insulting everyone online because the cant do it in meat space...
as for Magazine content..
Personally I like to read things that I wont read everywhere else...expose's if you will :)
Which is why I read Esquire and Newsweek and Vanity Fair...they talk about things beyond mascara, sexual positions and too many damn articles about Eminem, Busta and Lil Kim |
oh...and a message to Mr Attucks...whomever you may be..
you might want to rearrange this site to have cleaner message boards seeing as that is where all the action is...just a thought |
Neil
You sound very arrogant and bullheaded. Othello did make a number of points. You still have yet to respond to them. I believe it is because you cannot even muster up enough lies to defend Vibe's hiring practices and shoddy level of quality. You could not even defend how you got your job, because your friends from Blaze put you on when the magazine was dissolved. Why come on here to pose as an "industry leader"? when you're nothing but some wannabe macho windbag at a magazine that's getting worse with each issue? And why are people defending this guy? why doesn't anyone defend Shaheim Reed and Minya Oh, who lost their positions to make room for this "Greg Tate wannabe"? |
What do y'all think of The Source? Spill the beans on David Mays and Made Men! |
Vibe is a great magazine and the punk ass who keeps dissing Neil needs to shut up already. The person dissing probably works for The Source, which is the worst piece of shit on Earth. David Mays, The Source's publisher, is a low down dirty crook who robbed me and the original editorial staff and replaced us with wannabes like Adario Strange and Selwyn Hinds. The Source used to be great but that was a long time ago (almost ten years). Since we left, the magazine has become more crooked. The record reviews are a joke. Mays always gives his group Made Men top honors.The new writers all suck and the new editor is even worse than Selwyn, who is the real "Greg Tate wannabe." |
I would like to hear everyone's opinion of The Source today. Let's not attack Vibe. Let's go after the magazine that is really pimping hip hop with their fake record reviews, their microphones for sale, their rigged Awards show and their "features" that never tell the truth. |
The chicken's have come home to roost. And all yall are mother cluckers. You see what I mean? You cluck when ever some piece of chicken like this comes home. Effervesence is a virtue that is not share by many and it will cost you a pretty penny. I have now revealed that the master is little benny. Old macdonald had a farm full of chickens that never left the roost just like Quincy Jones. Now zone with me for awhile. Hooligans storm on the set and infiltrate Vibe magazine. Then someone made an eggregious mistake and made such an eggregious mistake that no one could believe how incredulous and incredible it was sickening. |
To Wigga:
I won't make any attempt "to defend Vibe's hiring practices and shoddy level of quality" because I don't want anyone thinking I'm trying to speak on behalf of the whole magazine.
I posted on this site for my own interests and listed my employer in the interest of honesty. I was personally attacked and defended myself.
Oh, by the way, with the name you've chosen why do you think that anyone on this site should care what you think?
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Hey- what the hell is a "budding editor"??? |
neil:
my point wasn't that hip-hop journos go in waves that burn out (to mix metaphors). cream rises to the top; for every marcus reeves that disappears, there's a rob marriott still writing cover stories.
i don't think these writers burn out quickly. some do, some don't, like with any "artistic" medium. most move on to bigger & better magazines or opportunities (books, movies). many get older and don't care about the music or hip-hop culture as much as younger scribes.
i wouldn't encourage anyone to label themselves as a hip-hop writer. it's a pretty risky pigeonhole indeed. some consider themselves writers, others consider themselves music journalists. the music journalists usually disappear over time, but at least they spare us drivel like nelson george's fiction. (egad)
and as far as othello, my point was never that neil doesn't deserve his job. (who the fuck am i?) my exact quote was "i wouldn't shit on neil drumming. new writers . . . should have a chance to show & prove." |
Neil
I am sorry for all the bullshit I wrote. You are a good hearted person and I took your words out of context. I made an ass of myself and would like to personally apologize for my ignorance and stupidity. You are not part of the problem. I am. Me and every one else coming here to fill these boards up with garbage and insults. I am sorry for the insults and wish you the best of luck at the magazine (which is great). Now that I've apologized and admitted that I was being a stupid ass, can some of the other posters (including the second 'hamlet,' not the intelligent real hamlet who was posting first) please do the same? Let's not make this site a repository for our pathetic insults and self loathing. Let's stop the hating and let people express themselves without fear of being insulted by bozoes like us.
To everyone
Sorry for writing bullshit. I will no longer do that any more. |
WHat the HELL is "HIP HOP CULTURE" and why are people not embarrassed to refer to themseves as such?
Are there such people?
They must be really annoying to talk to in person.
I hope i never meet someone like that...i would have to laugh and they would probably get mad and tell me im not "real."
Isn't there anything going on in NYC to write about these days besides CAPADONA's new "JOINT'?
Is it really that dead in NYC right now or are have people simply become completely VOID of ideas?
BTW, is it just me, or does everyone agree that GREG TATE should be executed for writing that retarded thing about lisa bonet (the one in VIBE with pictures of bonet posing with some faggoty-lookin' white guys and a bunch of boa constrictors writhing all over her and her disgusting tattoos).?
Unfortunatly, we can't execute bonet..shes already dead isn't she?
afFLicted |
Whoever defended the work of Vibe's Jeanine Amber must be kidding right? I haven't seen her write (or assign) a decent feature story since she's been there. My contacts tell me it's likely she's slept her way through the ranks at the Village Voice and now Vibe. She writes about being seduced by men on Caribbean beaches and all of this "I need a strong Black man" relationship crap which clearly reveals she has issues (i.e. past failed relationships, physical abuse). This "tragic mulatto" thing informs so much of her work it's sickening. Another example of somebody who has absolutely no connection to the constituency she programs editorial content for. Black (not urban) people. It's really funny how we've all latched onto this concept of "urban" (a kinder, friendlier marketing term that really means/originally meant Black). This revisionist reasoning is startling. |
jeannine fucked eric weisbard, then fucked carter harris. (after being turned out by dyke MC nefertiti)
draw your own conclusions.
i still think she makes decent enough decisions regarding the non-music content of vibe. her puffy cover story was only okay, but they shouldn't have put him on the cover in the 1st place. |
Jeanine sounds like a real slut.
anyone got her email?
Lemme know..afFLicted |
so my boy hyun stabbed his girl Minya in the back and took her old post...before her seat could cool...
Damn Kim, dat's cold. |
Wednesday night Networking TIP from today's SILICON ALLEY DAILY
Workers caught in dot-com downsizing can console themselves at Ultra Rage's (www.ultrarage.com)weekly Wednesday night "Pink Slip Party." The party planning site invites attendees to gather at Rebar (corner of 8th Avenue & 16th Street) to "hoist a cocktail to honor our industry's shell-shocked vets who bought the dream and still got the pink slip." Not sure if you should attend? Check in at fuckedcompany.com first ((OR URBAN EXPOSE')), and see if your company is among the endangered.
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I think most hip hop magazines are ghetto. They are started by people who want to exploit black people, but who don't know the market they are getting into. Misinformation and exagerated stereotypes rule these publications. Nevertheless, VIBE throws some good parties! |
Being that I rarely read any of the drivel that passes for "hip-hop/black/urban" magazines these days, I had no idea that Neil Drumming had made that move to Blaze and Vibe. Cuz, when I read you in the City Paper and Washington Post back in the day (has it been that long?), I was always impressed. And I'm a cynical, angry, acidic bastard who is pissed off by almost everything I come across in print. You and Ta-Nahisi would put words to paper on some non-bullshit time, you have my respect. I sometimes allowed myself the extravagance of calling myself a budding writer, but peeping you two I was always reminded of how much I needed to step up my game. I won't even take you to task for the practices of your employers, we could tear apart their shortcomings for days. I just hope for you that your voice and idealism doesn't get snuffed in the snake-filled circles you're running in now. Keep writing that hot shit. Like monica said, some of us will win eventually. |
Yeah Hamlet,
I heard Jeanine Amber got sexed and physically beat down some years ago by some (British???) rapper and her journalism has suffered ever since. Domestic violence damages people in more ways than you think. Once Vibe gets a new Features Editor I'll renew my subscription. Mags like Vibe suffer immensely without well written and researched feature stories y'know. |
SELASSIE I: i hear what you're saying about domestic violence my brother...no man has the right to hit a woman...
the proper thing to do is to refrain from such uncouth behaviour (even if she wont't LISTEN) and instead call a bigger girl to kick the crap out of her.
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why y'all ho's crying so loud about Vibe? You don't like it? You don't see it as valid? You are worried about their direction? You are worried about their editorial staff and hiring practices? Why do you give such a shit? Who cares about them?
I kind of like Vibe to be honest. I pick it up. Read Bobbittos column first every time, then I go look for pictures of half naked ladies. And usually I find them, so I'm happy.
I don't bother driving myself crazy reading most of these journalists stories. I was just talking about this with Do Or Die today. I HATE reading stories where the writer starts off with some shit like "As we drove along in his Hummer, I realized that (Big Rap Name Here) and I really made a connection. The sun glistened off his rolex and Mobb Deep's "Quiet Storm" emanated from the speakers. He gently ran his hand up and down my leg and grabbed my cock blah blah blah" bullshit. Why worry your self. Just don't read the booshit you don't like. |
How come monica and reggaestar are so fuckin' homophobic? C'mon kids, only children resort to prejudice when they ain't got nuttin' substantive ta say. Get over it, kids, and offer intelligent criticism (if you have it). I got a newsflash for ya: queers are part of the hip hop nation. Can ya handle it, or do your ignorance and fear define you completely? |
This has nothing to do with this story, but what about the online hip-hop awards? Is that a UBO event? I know it's SOHH, but didn't they kinda do it together, or was that just the site? I've heard good things about that. Was it better than The Source Awards? I kinda like having one in NY and one in LA. ...SAR, from the UE old school. |
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LOL>>>>>P.S. KJ Bryce@ Arista, if you mean that you forgot about DW, I've been reading your interesting tibits and I know first hand those tibits are more than very true. It's long overdue that the spot gets blownup. And I think I have a match. You got the lighter fluid? Burn baby, burm.
when and where is the BON FIRE? ill bring the marshmallows....
now whoever is posing as EMIL now that was funny...
sup LEN, KYLE and JESSE.... |
The Fader does a nice job. I was very impressed
with the one issue I've read. |
I always thought the name came from Chef Emeril. |
This goes out to the man called Blazer@blaze.com, who hides himself behind a fake name and a fake e-mail address. I'm sure I know you personally and the next time you have too much free time at work make sure you don't put my name next to comments I definitely didn't make. If you have any questions feel free to e-mail me. To all else much apologies.
Peace,
Kenji Jasper |
Yeah apology accepted...
Anyway, I just wanted to respond...My comments were true and accurate and I wanted vent about a situation that dashed my hopes at a solid hip hop publication
It seemed Blaze was heady away from the puffery bestowed in many hip hop pieces, until the Jesse incident.
Why he brought that scape to the forefront is beyond me, but anyway the critique of Cannibus's first project was valid and I liked the publication's direction....Until Mimi came in and stunk up the place with her single paragraph editor's notes that boardered on futile exercises of space waste.
And the mag just continued to deteriorate.
Oh well Kenji I didn't attribute any of my comments to you and the language may have been flammatory but everything I said was valid...
and if you dont know well.......
gannsberg |
Don't sleep...
http://www.whoisjillscott.com
posted 9:18 am July 15
ya heard it here 1st
Album drops on July 18
;) |
Did anyone see the Ny Times article about Wiliam "Upski" Wimsatt? This dude wrote an article about 'wiggers' in The Source like he was supporting rap then told the times that he used to feel black people were mentally inferior to whites. One of my boys up at 360 told me that Upski be going up there all the time and that everyone sweats him and beg him to write for them. Upski's article in the times also had his girlfriend saying that he was outgrowing his wanting to have black friends. then he told the times that an old black lady once wanted to use a washing machine in a laundrymat. he started talking tough about how he didn't let her use it because he was there first then he said that shit about 'but then i realized she wasn't born as smart as us white folk.'
Why don't we talk about that on this site? did anyone see that article in last thursday's times? elliott wilson was also in there, and they put him in there as a 'black man' even tho' he goes around this industry proudly saying "I am half white!"
I think everyone should read this article and tell us all how you feel.
it's at
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/race/070600kleinfield-hiphop.h
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Othello ii
i AM NOT ABOUT TO PAY 2.50 for that story...Especially since you gave me the highlights, but thanks anyway.
call me cheap
gannsberg |
The problem with Vibe is that although they make alot of money, they don't want to spend it on quality people, urban or non urban, a real writer is a real writer, point blank. From a design (and editorial) standpoint, the original Vibe was a work of art, it won awards and was celebrated by the magazine industry for being cutting edge. As Vibe became more popular, it became more mainstream, with design that even a first year art school student wouldn't do.The stories became publicity pieces, straight from the label. The problem with Blaze was that too many people had a different vision for what it should be. Jesse Washington, in my belief, could have made that magazine great, but if you looked around that office, none of those other cats was "hip hop". Yeah, you listened to it, maybe even DJed, but did you live it? And if you lived it, can you flip it? I'm a little biased, but after the first issue of Blaze, that joint went down the drain.
A great magazine is a marriage of great writing and great design, and if you're going to spend your money, spend it on that, you'll always come out on top
and for the record, Bonz Malone is a creative thinker and a talented writer.
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I hope that that really wasn't Emil Wilbekin writing those messages. I've known him to be a good stylist and a good writer. But if you did write that, check yourself man, you sound unprofessional.
Neil Drumming, kudos, man, you have the right idea, use this place as a forum for change.
Kyle Donovan, 2 things:1- its not that Vibe is making alot of money now the real point is, is Vibe speaking to us? If it isn't, another publication will come right in and take that spot. We read Vibe now because its all we have at the moment.
2-If it you realy want to be all about numbers and sales, fix that ugly magazine up man (NV), did that designer ever do a magazine before? I'm embarrassed to look at it.
It is really time to change the shit that we're getting fed.
This is all criticism coming from someone in the game, take it like I'm a hater, or take it and do something with it.
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I hope that that really wasn't Emil Wilbekin writing those messages. I've known him to be a good stylist and a good writer. But if you did write that, check yourself man, you sound unprofessional.
Neil Drumming, kudos, man, you have the right idea, use this place as a forum for change.
Kyle Donovan, 2 things:1- its not that Vibe is making alot of money now the real point is, is Vibe speaking to us? If it isn't, another publication will come right in and take that spot. We read Vibe now because its all we have at the moment.
2-If it you realy want to be all about numbers and sales, fix that ugly magazine up man (NV), did that designer ever do a magazine before? I'm embarrassed to look at it.
It is really time to change the shit that we're getting fed.
This is all criticism coming from someone in the game, take it like I'm a hater, or take it and do something with it.
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I know this isn't the proper forum but does anybody else hate that little bitch on the Real World New Orleans Melissa? I just saw an episode and had to vent. |
okay, here we go again! Damn, Emil. Now y'all know good and well that Emil didn't write that shit-- First off he's not that arrogant, shady or rude and if he is to any of you it was well deserved. Now I will admit that the new vibe is different but isn't suppose to be different. Shit if that was the case then Danyel should own the patent on the publication and make a profile from advertising and any sale. Once again I say don't we have something else to do than entertain what the fuck Emil, Mimi, Shani, OJ, Neil, Tiarra, or who ever is there-- get a life man-- and at the end of the day if you don't wanna read VIBE there are about 1000 other magazines to read. |
When is somebody gonna come with the REAL story of what went down @ Honey magazine? The two girls, Kierna Mayo & the other girl had a really fresh, original concept & layout. Then, it seemed, that "corporate raiders" came along & the whole thing went the way of the "Girls' Guide to Hunting & Chicken-cum-Vogue-For Black Girls Who've Considered Suicide-When VIBE Style Became Enuff" magazine. What happened to Mayo & girlfriend? Somebody, pray tell... |
Vibe ain't shit. Fuck everybody at Vibe. |
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Jeff..she's kinda cute, but that attitude on her ass pisses me off... |
personal attacks are mute. these pubs are run by people whose only concern is numbers. there is research conducted on a market, and then a product is developed to cater to that market by any means neccessary. a site like this is full of harsh criticisms by frustrated thinking people. there aren't very many outlets for intelligent people in the year 2000. standards or quality and substance has changed across the board in any semblence of industry, field, or process of labor. welcome to the millenium.
the market (pick a market, any consumer market, sports, publishing, politics, and soon to come . the web) is dominated by advertisers who sublimely shape consumers values, at the expense of thinking people whose caliber of stimulation grows at a faster rate than the growth of cliche formats of , in this case, publications. they're not designed for people who operate with an independant style of intelligence. no disrespect to those of you who know this already.
i'm posting to this site because i happen to be a frustrated journalist who used to have a rose colored perception about the publishing business. now i'm only concerned with searching for some kind of integrity about what i do for a living. but that's personal.
bottom line. blaze was on it's way to being a decent product until Jesse was fired. There was conflict of vision between him and Keith and the Miller publishing folk. the whole artists storming the office, controversial editor-n-chief scenario was the hype that gave them a "reason" to fire Jesse. that decision was more political than anything the daily news printed. Keith left when he figured out how he was just a figure head. Miller limited his input in shaping products like Blaze, hence his current editorial art of war with Vanguarde.
Quincy Jones owns a small percentage of Vibe. He flies in a for a meeting once in a while, but he's more name recognition for the brand than a major player as far ownership is concerned. blaze was wack for any "urban" hip hop audience because it's biggest demographic was not urban. it was white males age 14 to 18 in the mid west, and down south. there were more white kids reading blaze than any other demographic. thus the editorial content reflected that. certain hip hop acts (like the Hot boyz) from specific regions getting more play than others. ya know, like what happens on hot 97, but not exactly payola.
Vibe wants to "BE" Rolling Stone. so blaze was initially designed to catch the overlap of Vibe's hip hop audience while it transitioned itself further into the mainstream. but the Source had the market so locked, it couldn't compete. There wasn't enough vision in the blaze management, nor was there enough guts to take chances with it's cover shots, or it's sections to really be innovative. nor were they experienced enough to cultivate a staff. there was some fresh young talent on staff but they were stifled by the egos of management.
Miller thought they could just funnel some low rate copy to a market in the hip hop industry (which is otherwise a billion dollar industry) and catch some hot boyz money by literally featuring the hot boyz every other issue. but they actually lost money because they (the ownership) didnt' respect the market, the music, or the culture, and because of that, there is great disrespect for pubs like blaze, vibe, spin, honey, and any pub that fits those formats. editors follow the orders of their management. management is managed by the ownership. quality, or the lack thereof, is the result of how it's valued from the top down.
at the end of the day, we can all complain, dis, hate,
shit on and criticise all we want to. about these pubs and each other. as long as there is a market for them, they will be in business to exploit it. people who own and run magazines don't really give a shit about what thinking people think. they have numbers to fill with the mindless blanks who are happy to subscribe to a corporate anus to get shitted on once a month. the question i'd like the answer to is, how big is the demographic for independant thinkers?
"their very existence is so dependant upon the system, they will defend it against you",
" . . .you can't free a mind after it's reached a certain age . .it's too dangerous".
Morpheous, the Matrix.
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Oh what a rare, beautiful and sad species is the Independent Thinker...he's a sight to behold as he struggles with his independent thoughts even as his proclamations of independence falls upon deaf ears...
There are no demographics on these creatures of independence because they are all different. There's no two alike. And in our world, independence is often mistaken for insubordinance. So, good luck trying to find some numbers and statistics about yourself, (or others "like?" you). Hobre pobricito, you are doomed to a life of inestimable intelligence. Trust me, 'cause I know... |
Sorry to get off the subject BUT there is too much talent around here to not try and tap into it.
I'm looking for constructive ideas and partners to help me reshape my site, BLACKMUSIC.COM into a strong urban destination.
I hope to begin reviving the site in the next few weeks.
Please email me at brian@blackmusic.com
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It seems to me that the dialogue here is a healthy expression of the frustration of knowing what something should or is supposed to be like (i.e. any project, any idea, any vision) and not having the jurisdiction or power to directly change it.
The lack of true understanding of an idea, a project, a vision at the management and ownership level is the fundamental reason that failure is imminent. The online sphere is the newest space for unlimited growth potential. In the case of the "urban" situation, it is still virtually untapped. No matter how much VC money is filtered through one dimensional thinking entities (it is not the online properties fault if someone believes in their idea and they give them millions; shit I would take it too!) but what happens when you have millions and really don't know what to do with it. You get the flyest offices, give out hefty salaries, stay pretty, ride pretty, oh hire some webdesigners, pay for syndicated content....) The game seems to be playing like a "pyramid" scheme, those who got in early got the cheese. Its too bad that VC and other funding resources will soon hold great caution and scrutiny at potentially viable online business ventures. This maybe a godsend for the users/consumers though because it will force anyone else trying to get the dough to come with something worth visiting.
I don't even think there is much of a true understanding of the "urban" online market and how to harness it. From a global perspective it is tremendous growing exponentially. I recieve e-newsletters from 6 continents, from areas like South Africa, Singapore, Estonia, Finland, Morocco, to name a few(detailing "urban" culture(music, film, etc..) the global coverage translates into millions of users searching to access a common "culture" online.
On an elementary level With access to the very people, places, and destinations, that the masses hold closer to god, shouldn't it be possible to get the masses attention?? The obvious answer is yes, but again with no strategy and no vision, you can take two pictures get a paragraph article, some ill no relevancy story bought from junk news delivery service and give away some free e-mail. There is no excuse for lack of interesting content. From over three years of monitoring urban related websites user activity(through postings, number of websites added, longevity of website links, the ever-shady hit counters, membership adds, ICQ adds, Newgroups, activity by geography, the numbers dont lie...I wonder if a company with 50 million dollars can afford to pay the average ambitious driven young person $15 an hour to join their research and development department and surf the web.
Well I can rant and rave allday, theres so much more I would like to talk about. Thank you Urban Expose for creating a forum where we can all say what the fuck we want.
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As someone previously stated, there aren't many magbos that represent me. Vibe and The Source are the closest they come. There are really no alternatives. Vibe is glitzy but so is commercial Hip-hop. What are the other options?
There are many things to consider when money is involved. Marketing is everything. The magazine has to appeal to the other 40% of their reader base. Vibe is an international magazine. Vibe has to appeal to a broad range of people in order to be successful. It is extremely difficult to maintain a balance in such a fickle industry.
I live in NY and I frequent industry related functions. I find that Vibe is relatively accurate with its information. The magazine has music reviews and tight flicks of everybody and they momma. What more should a music magazine started by a music mogul do?
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